A few months ago, my friend asked me to look at her WordPress website. Her online store looked great, but she was frustrated because visitors weren’t buying anything. After spending just 30 minutes on her site, I could see exactly why—the user experience was all over the place.
I’ve seen this same problem a lot of times. Small business owners focus so much on making their sites look pretty that they forget about making them easy to use.
The result? High bounce rates, low conversions, and missed opportunities.
That’s why I put together this guide with 13 practical tips to improve your WordPress user experience. These simple changes can dramatically boost your conversions and keep visitors coming back for more.
User experience (UX) is about how easy and enjoyable it is for visitors to use your WordPress website. This applies whether they’re reading your blog, exploring your services, or making a purchase.
Think about what happens when customers walk into a well-organized store. 🛒
If everything’s easy to find and the checkout is quick, people are more likely to stay longer, browse, and buy.
The same applies to other websites: a clear navigation menu, fast load times, and a clean design keep visitors engaged.
But if your site is confusing, slow to load, or crowded with too many elements, many users will get frustrated and leave. And most won’t come back. In fact, even a one-second delay in page speed can cause conversions to drop by 7%.
That’s why good UX isn’t optional — it’s essential. The right design choices make your site easier to use and help guide visitors toward taking action, whether that’s subscribing to your email newsletter, signing up, or making a purchase.
And the best part? Many of these improvements are easy to set up, even if you’re not a developer. I’ll walk you through the most effective tips in the sections below.
Here’s a quick overview of all the tips I’ll cover in this guide:
Ready? Let’s get started.
Before you can improve your WordPress site’s user experience, you need to know who you’re designing for. A great way to start is by creating simple user personas, which are fictional profiles that represent your typical visitors.
For example, if you’re running a WordPress blog targeting busy parents, one of your personas could be “Sarah.” She’s a working mom looking for time-saving tips, easy-to-follow guides, and parenting hacks to manage her busy life.
Having user personas in mind helps you tailor your website’s features and content to better serve your audience. To create one, I recommend trying the free HubSpot Make My Persona tool.
Once you understand who your users are, it becomes easier to make design and content choices that actually help them.
It’s even more important to get direct feedback from your visitors if your site is already up and running. In my experience, even a simple feedback survey can uncover valuable insights about your site’s navigation, design, or content.
You can gather real feedback using tools like UserFeedback. For example, you might create a feedback form that displays across your website so that users can share what’s working (or what isn’t).
You might ask user experience feedback questions like, “Was this page helpful?” or “What information were you hoping to find?” This way, you collect direct, actionable feedback.
You can also easily create surveys and polls to gather visitor feedback with a tool like WPForms. For instance, you could run a quick poll asking which new features your users would like to see next or set up a short survey with a rating system to learn more about their overall experience.
The more you learn about your audience, the better your UX decisions will be — and the more likely your visitors will be to stick around, explore, and take action.
For more details, we have a full guide on how to choose a target audience.
📝 Insider Tips: At WPBeginner, we use WPForms to create and manage our annual reader survey. Its extensive library of 2,000+ templates, AI tools, and drag-and-drop builder make it incredibly easy to use. You can learn more about its features in our complete WPForms review.
Meanwhile, UserFeedback has helped us set up interactive surveys and understand the needs of our web design customers. It has 20+ questionnaire templates and different question types. See our extensive UserFeedback review for insights into what it can do.
A UX audit is basically a deep dive into your website from a visitor’s point of view. It helps you spot anything that might be confusing, so you can fix it as soon as possible.
One of the first things you’ll want to do is test your site for usability issues. This means checking how easily someone can navigate your site, find what they need, or complete an action.
Even minor issues, like a misplaced or hidden button, can negatively impact the user experience.
I always recommend walking through important steps on your site, like submitting a contact form or making a purchase, just like a first-time visitor would.
Take note of any steps that feel confusing, slow, or frustrating — these are your pain points and bottlenecks to address.
It’s also a good idea to track the time it takes to go from finding a feature to completing the desired action. This way, you know exactly how much time a user typically takes to convert or complete a specific action.
For a full walkthrough, be sure to check out our expert tips for how to do a UX audit in WordPress.
User experience isn’t just about design — it’s also about data. Tracking how users actually interact with your WordPress site helps you make smart decisions that improve usability and drive results.
While Google Analytics (GA) is the gold standard for tracking data, it can be tricky for beginners to set up and navigate. That’s why I always recommend using MonsterInsights.
It’s a user-friendly Google Analytics plugin for WordPress that gives you the insights you need without having to navigate complex reports.
With MonsterInsights, you can track user behavior, set up conversion goals, and improve your site’s performance, all inside your WordPress dashboard. At WPBeginner, our team uses MonsterInsights every day to see this data.
For more insights into its features, see our full MonsterInsights review.
MonsterInsights also lets you keep an eye on key metrics like:
These insights are accessible on the MonsterInsights Reports page. They can help you spot what’s working and what needs improvement.
For more information, see our guide on WordPress conversion tracking.
Using heatmaps is another powerful way to visualize behavior. Heatmaps and session recording tools like Microsoft Clarity and UserFeedback show you exactly where people click, scroll, or get stuck.
This is especially helpful for refining navigation paths or identifying parts of your layout that are being ignored.
For more information on this topic, read our guide on how to set up heatmaps in WordPress.
More than half of all website traffic comes from mobile devices. That means if your WordPress blog or site doesn’t look or work right on a phone, you’re likely losing visitors before they even get to your content.
To prevent this from happening, I always recommend using a responsive WordPress theme. These themes will adjust automatically to different screen sizes — whether someone’s on a tablet, phone, or desktop.
Most modern themes include this feature, but it’s always good to double-check.
In my opinion, Sydney is one of the best responsive themes on the market. It’s also flexible and lightweight, and comes with 17+ starter templates.
It makes building a mobile-friendly site easy, thanks to the 8 mobile-ready header styles, drag-and-drop sections, and full design control.
Plus, there’s a free version of Sydney that you can use to get started!
Next, just because your website looks fine on a laptop doesn’t mean it’s easy to tap through on a phone. That’s why I suggest avoiding small text, hard-to-click buttons, and menus that are difficult to open.
The good news is that you can preview the mobile layout of your site from your WordPress content editor.
Some page and theme builders, like SeedProd, even let you customize the mobile version of your site from the editor.
For more information about this, you can explore our expert tips for creating a mobile-friendly WordPress site.
Did you know that websites are considered “places of public accommodation”? That’s why the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) allows people to file complaints if a website doesn’t meet accessibility standards.
This is a good reason to make sure your site is inclusive for all users, including people with visual, hearing, or motor impairments.
But making your website accessible doesn’t just help people with disabilities. It also improves the user experience for everyone.
One easy accessibility adjustment you can make is adding alt text and titles to your images:
When it comes to fonts, ideally, you’ll want to pick options that are easy to read.
At WPBeginner, we use Proxima Nova for its clean look and readability. It’s sleek, contemporary, and subtly elegant, which is ideal for blogs, portfolios, and media companies.
Another good one is Lato, which you can see on the WPForms website. It’s welcoming and approachable with a balanced design, perfect for mobile apps, retail stores, and eCommerce websites.
But simply choosing a good font isn’t enough. You also need to make sure there’s enough contrast between the text and the background color.
And even with the right font and contrast, some users may still struggle with reading the text if it’s too small. One simple way to make your site more accessible is by letting visitors resize the text.
All that said, true ADA compliance goes beyond just these basic steps. It involves adhering to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG), which provide a comprehensive framework for making web content accessible to people with disabilities.
For more in-depth insights, check out our guide on how to improve accessibility on your WordPress site.
Confusing navigation is one of the fastest ways to lose visitors. But the good news is that you can avoid this with an intuitive navigation menu. You’ll want it to be clear, simple, and easy to follow.
You can start by creating a logical menu structure. Stick to familiar terms like “Home,” “About,” “Blog,” “Shop,” and “Contact” so users immediately know where to go.
For example, if you’re running a business website where you sell software, your navigation should make it easy for visitors to learn about your products. In this case, key links might include “Features,” “Solutions,” “Pricing,” and “Resources.”
Plus, you may want to group similar content under dropdowns to avoid cluttering the top menu with too many items.
A mega menu can be particularly helpful for larger sites. This basically consists of multiple dropdown menus to help organize large amounts of content, products, or information.
For example, WPForms uses this menu type in their navigation to neatly group features, tutorials, and resources. This makes it easy for visitors to find what they need quickly.
For more information, see our guide on how to add a navigation menu in WordPress.
It’s also a good idea to add breadcrumbs, which are small links that show users where they are on your site (like Home > Blog > Article Name).
Breadcrumbs make it easy for visitors to backtrack and are especially helpful for blogs and online stores with lots of content.
Finally, if you want to provide your visitors with the best possible navigation experience, I suggest optimizing your WordPress search.
The default search function isn’t always the most accurate or helpful. Upgrading it can make a big difference, especially if you have a content-heavy site where users need to quickly find posts, products, or resources.
To do this, I recommend starting by reviewing your site’s search stats. This can show you what visitors are looking for, what they can’t easily find, and whether your current search function is meeting their needs.
From there, you can upgrade your WordPress search to deliver faster, more accurate results. Learn more about it in our guide on how to improve WordPress search.
A cluttered website can overwhelm your visitors and make it hard for them to focus. It can be tempting to overdo your design with fancy features, loud colors, and animations, but it’s not always the best option.
On the other hand, clean design helps guide people’s attention to what really matters — whether that’s your content, products, or call-to-action.
That’s why I strongly recommend using clean, minimalist design principles.
For starters, it’s usually best to stick to a consistent color scheme and limit your font choices to two or three. This keeps things looking polished and makes your content easier to read.
For example, on WPBeginner, we use our famous orange as the primary color on our website, and Proxima Nova as our font.
Using plenty of white space also prevents your layout from feeling crowded or cluttered. It not only looks modern but also makes your site feel more organized and professional.
I recommend keeping each page focused by limiting the number of elements, like popups, banners, and widgets, unless they serve a clear purpose.
Too many distractions can make it hard for visitors to choose what to do next, which often leads to confusion or even higher bounce rates.
In contrast, a clean and minimalist design improves the user experience. This can also increase conversions, generate more leads, and boost engagement!
One of the easiest ways to ensure a good balance of color, fonts, and white space is by using a well-designed theme, like Sydney, Neve, or OceanWP.
For tips on picking the right theme, check out our guide on selecting the perfect theme for WordPress.
If you already know you want something minimalist and easy to set up, you can take a look at our list of the best simple WordPress themes for a professional, clutter-free design.
Alternatively, you can use a page builder like SeedProd to create custom layouts that give you more control over design elements.
SeedProd lets you drag and drop elements to build landing pages, sales pages, coming soon pages, and even entire WordPress themes — no coding needed.
It’s perfect for beginners and non-technical users who need a completely custom look.
Did you know? Duplicator’s website was custom-built using SeedProd. To learn more about what the page builder can do, see our extensive SeedProd review.
To get started building your custom pages, see our expert checklist of key design elements for an effective WordPress website.
ℹ️ Insider Tip: Want a professionally designed WordPress site without all the heavy lifting? Our WordPress Website Design Service starts at just $599 — perfect for bringing your vision to life, hassle-free.
When you showcase your content in an organized and user-friendly way, you’ll be more likely to get your message across.
To organize your content better, I recommend starting by using clear headings. They are like signposts that guide visitors along your page.
You can also use these headings to create a table of contents, like we do on the WPBeginner blog. That way, readers can quickly jump to the parts of a post or page that interest them most.
Many of our posts also start with a brief overview and then break into actionable steps using bullet points. Here’s why that helps with content organization:
Visuals can make a big difference, too. Adding images, videos, or infographics can help illustrate your points and simplify complex ideas.
In our A/B test tutorial, for example, we included a screenshot of our test results. This visual comparison helped readers quickly see which version won and why it was more effective, making the concept of A/B testing more concrete and actionable. (You’ll learn more about A/B testing in Tip #10!)
Additionally, a quick explainer GIF can help keep visitors engaged and make your content more memorable.
Want to boost interaction? I also recommend including interactive polls, sliders, or fun quizzes using WordPress plugins. These small touches can make your content feel more dynamic and invite visitors to actively participate.
Looking for more details on how you can improve the way you present content? Check out our guide on how to write a great blog post and structure it.
How quickly your website loads plays a big role in user experience. A delay of just one second can cause people to lose interest and leave your site.
That’s why improving your WordPress website’s performance should be a top priority.
To start, you’ll want to use a caching plugin. Caching stores a ready-to-go copy of your site, so it loads much faster for repeat visitors.
Plugins like WP Rocket or WP Super Cache make this super easy.
I tested WP Rocket to see how it works, and it turned out to be really easy!
During testing, I enabled mobile caching to ensure a smooth experience on all devices. I also activated user caching to support logged-in users on WooCommerce and membership sites.
Then, I adjusted the cache lifespan based on how often the site content was updated, and enabled file minification and lazy loading.
These tweaks alone helped reduce my test site’s page load times by over 40%, and bounce rates also dropped.
For details, please see our guide on how to properly install and set up WP Rocket in WordPress.
Another way to boost your speed is by adding a CDN (Content Delivery Network).
A CDN stores copies of your site’s files on servers around the world, which means users load your site from the server closest to them. This can dramatically cut down load times, especially if you have visitors from different parts of the globe.
If you’re not sure where to start, we have a handy guide on how to set up Cloudflare’s free CDN in WordPress.
It’s also important to compress your images. Large image files are one of the biggest reasons sites slow down.
You can shrink your images without losing quality by using tools like TinyPNG or plugins like EWWW Image Optimizer that automate the process for you.
While you’re at it, consider switching to modern image formats like WebP. These formats offer better compression compared to traditional JPEG or PNG files, so your pages load even faster without sacrificing image quality.
Finally, don’t forget to test your site’s performance regularly. Free tools like GTmetrix or Google PageSpeed Insights can analyze your site and give you specific suggestions to make it even faster.
For more information and tips on improving site speed, refer to our ultimate guide to boosting WordPress performance.
ℹ️ Insider Tip: Want expert help speeding up your WordPress site? Our Site Speed Optimization Service can take care of it for you — starting at just $699!
When it comes to improving your site’s user experience, small tweaks can lead to big results — but how do you know what actually works?
That’s where A/B testing comes in.
A/B testing is a method for comparing two versions of a webpage or element (like a button or headline) to see which one works better.
Here’s how it works: You create two variations (A and B), show them to different groups of visitors, and then see which version gets more clicks, conversions, or engagement.
With tools like Thrive Optimize, setting up an A/B test is easy. It will then help you track which version gets more clicks, signups, or sales.
You can test things like:
For example, in Thrive Optimize, I ran a test where I changed the color of the call-to-action (CTA) button on a landing page. After editing the variation, I split traffic between versions and started the A/B test.
This process is intuitive, and instead of relying on gut feeling, you’ll have real data to back up your design and content choices!
For example, you might find that a shorter headline keeps users engaged longer, or that moving your CTA higher on the page increases conversions.
Most A/B testing tools will automatically show the winning version once enough data has been collected, helping you continuously improve your site without guessing.
For details on how to do it, refer to our guide on how to do A/B split testing in WordPress.
🧑💻 Pro Tip: I recommend starting with high-impact pages, such as your homepage, sales page, or lead capture forms, where even a small improvement can make a significant difference.
If your posts or pages include too much unnecessary content, it can make it harder for your audience to understand your message.
That’s why it’s always best to keep your content focused and intentional. Every page should have a clear goal, and every section of content should support that goal.
If you’re building a landing page, for example, the layout and copy should guide visitors toward a single action, like signing up for your newsletter or downloading a free resource.
For tips on building landing pages, please see our complete guide on increasing your landing page conversions.
When it comes to writing blog posts, the same rule applies. Publishing every idea that comes to mind might fill your site with content, but it won’t always serve your readers.
It is better to focus on topics that align with your niche and help your audience solve real problems.
To take it a step further, you can group related posts around a main pillar page using a content cluster strategy. This helps improve navigation and build authority in your niche.
We have a full tutorial on how to build content clusters in WordPress, including how to plan them around your areas of expertise.
It also helps to do regular content audits. This is because, over time, some posts stop performing — either because they’re outdated or because search intent has changed.
This is called content decay. For example, a blog post called ‘Top SEO Tips for 2020’ might no longer rank well in search results because SEO practices have evolved.
So, during your regular content audits, you’ll want to review older pages and decide: should I keep, update, or delete the content?
A little cleanup goes a long way in keeping visitors engaged and helping them find exactly what they need.
When people can actively interact with your pages, they will naturally stay on your site longer.
Creating opportunities for user interaction can make all the difference.
A great place to start is your comments section. If it feels outdated, clunky, or inactive, people might not bother leaving a reply.
To give it an update, you can add like/dislike buttons. This way, your visitors can engage with the conversation even if they don’t want to post.
Alternatively, you might want to feature a simple user ranking system. For instance, you can pin top comments to the top of the section or award badges to users who consistently leave helpful remarks.
These small touches motivate readers to participate and foster a stronger community around your content.
To do all this, you can upgrade your comment system using a plugin like Thrive Comments. It helps create a better experience that encourages more interaction and discussion.
For insights about the plugin, see our in-depth Thrive Themes Suite review. Need more tool recommendations? Feel free to check out our expert picks of the best plugins to improve WordPress comments.
Want to take user interaction to the next level?
Creating space for real-time conversations can turn your website into a more inclusive and supportive place. Providing a platform for real-time interaction helps create community and encourages return visits.
If you’re running an eLearning, support-based, or membership site, adding a live chat feature can make a significant impact. It allows users to ask questions about course material or get help with platform features.
For other types of websites, such as online stores or service-based sites, live chat offers immediate support. Users can easily get help with a product feature, clarifying a service detail, or resolving a technical issue.
Learn more about it in our guide on how to add live chat in WordPress.
Want something more community-focused? You can create private chat rooms or discussion boards using tools like BuddyBoss.
This is especially helpful for membership programs or online courses, where people want to connect with others on the same journey.
Hop over to our guide on how to create chat rooms in WordPress to learn more.
Sometimes, even a small theme or plugin update can break your layout without you noticing. That’s where visual regression testing comes in.
Visual regression testing (VRT) helps you make sure that updates to your website don’t accidentally mess up its look or design.
The process is simple – your VRT software takes ‘screenshots’ of a page before and after you make changes to it. It analyzes the code or pixel differences of these pages to catch any visual issues early, before they hurt the user experience.
The VRTs plugin is one of the best tools for automating this process. For step-by-step instructions, you can read our guide on how to do visual regression testing in WordPress.
I hope my tips and tricks help you improve user experience in WordPress. Next, you might want to check out our guide on how to add a forum to your site and our expert picks of key design elements for an effective WordPress website.
If you liked this article, then please subscribe to our YouTube Channel for WordPress video tutorials. You can also find us on Twitter and Facebook.
The post How to Improve User Experience in WordPress (13 Practical Tips) first appeared on WPBeginner.
When I first started working on my WordPress websites, I was mostly guessing what visitors wanted. It wasn’t until I started using heatmaps that I truly understood how people interacted with my site — where they clicked, how far they scrolled, and what actually caught their attention.
If you’re trying to improve your WordPress site but aren’t sure what’s working and what’s not, then heatmaps can give you some answers.
After testing several tools over the years, I’ve narrowed it down to 2 easy ways to set up heatmaps in WordPress: Microsoft Clarity and UserFeedback.
In this guide, I’ll go through each setup process step by step. By the end, you’ll have the tools you need to make data-driven changes to your site. 🔥
A heatmap is a visual tool that shows you exactly how visitors interact with your WordPress website. It uses color coding to highlight the most and least active areas on a page:
By seeing this activity mapped out, you can stop guessing about what’s working and what’s not. In other words, heatmaps help remove the guesswork by giving you clear insights into visitor behavior.
They help you answer important questions, such as:
With this information, you can make smart changes to your site. You’ll know what to fix, what to move, and what to improve.
You can use that insight to get more readers, boost sales, or increase inquiries from potential clients — all by making simple changes based on how people actually use your site.
In the following sections, I’ll share how to set up WordPress heatmaps using 2 of the best tools for adding heatmaps. One is completely free, and the other is a premium option with extra features.
Feel free to use the jump links below to go to your preferred method:
Before you add heatmaps to your WordPress site, it’s important to make sure your site is properly prepared. Taking a few precautionary steps can help prevent any issues as you get started.
If you’re adding heatmaps to your live site for the first time, it’s a smart move to test everything on a staging site first.
A staging site is essentially a duplicate of your live website, where you can make changes and test new features without affecting your real website. It allows you to try out new tools, like heatmaps, safely, without risking any disruptions to the user experience.
Then, you can simply push the changes live to apply them to your real website.
If you use Bluehost, then you can easily create a staging site, thanks to their quick 1-click solution.
That said, if you don’t have access to staging through your hosting, then you can also use plugins like WP Stagecoach to create staging sites.
For a full walkthrough, you can check out our guide on how to create a staging site for WordPress.
Additionally, always back up your site before making any major changes. Having a backup ensures that, in case something goes wrong during the setup process, you can easily restore your site to its previous state without losing any important data.
Finally, remember that heatmaps work best when used alongside other analytics tools and user feedback.
Think of them as a starting point for uncovering potential issues or opportunities, not the only source of information. Combining insights from heatmaps with broader data gives you a clearer, more accurate picture of how visitors interact with your site.
Microsoft Clarity is a free, easy-to-use heatmap and session recording tool that integrates seamlessly with WordPress. It’s best for overall site analysis, ideal for beginners, bloggers, and small business owners who want to understand visitor behavior.
That’s why we use it across some of our partner websites to track heatmaps and gain insights into user interactions.
📌 Important: Clarity collects anonymized usage data to improve its services, which can help you comply with the GDPR and other privacy laws. For more details on GDPR compliance, check out our guide to WordPress and GDPR.
Step 1: Create a Free Microsoft Clarity Account
To set up WordPress heatmaps with Microsoft Clarity, you’ll first need an account.
Go to the Microsoft Clarity website and click ‘Get Started.’
In the popup that appears, you’ll see that you can sign up with a Microsoft, Facebook, or Google account. Just click on the one you prefer.
For this tutorial, I’m going to select ‘Sign in to Google.’
After that, you can follow through the signup process by choosing the appropriate account.
Then, click ‘Continue’ on the confirmation page.
Upon signup, you’ll be asked to confirm your email address.
Don’t forget to check the Clarity Terms of Use and click the checkbox before continuing.
You’ll then be prompted to create a new project for your WordPress site.
You just need to give your project a name, enter your website URL, and choose your industry from the dropdown menu.
With that done, go ahead and click ‘Add new project’ to finish the setup.
With that done, you’re now ready to install the Microsoft Clarity WordPress plugin to set up heatmaps on your website.
Step 2: Install Microsoft Clarity in Your WordPress Site
In this step, you’ll install the Microsoft Clarity plugin and connect it to the account you just created.
From your WordPress dashboard, let’s go to Plugins » Add New Plugin.
Use the search bar to quickly find the Microsoft Clarity plugin.
Just click ‘Install Now’ on the relevant search result, and once again on ‘Activate’ when it appears.
For step-by-step instructions, see our guide on how to install a WordPress plugin.
Upon plugin activation, the next step is choosing a Clarity project to connect both tools.
You can navigate to Clarity from your WordPress admin area and choose the project you just created from the dropdown menu.
In the next few seconds, you should see a ‘Project integrated successfully’ notification.
For more details, you can see our guide on how to install Microsoft Clarity Analytics in WordPress.
💡 Note: If you are using a WordPress caching plugin, then you need to clear your WordPress cache after connecting Microsoft Clarity to your website. This is important because, otherwise, Microsoft will not be able to verify your site for a few hours.
Step 3: Set Up Heatmaps in Microsoft Clarity
Once you connect Microsoft Clarity, it will automatically start tracking your visitors — no need to paste any code manually or mess with theme files.
Inside your Clarity dashboard, you’ll find useful reports that give you an overview of how people interact with your WordPress blog or site.
Some of the key metrics include:
You’ll also find pre-built widgets like the ‘User Overview,’ which highlights visitor types and devices.
Plus, there are behavioral insights such as rage clicks (when users repeatedly click in frustration) and excessive scrolling (when users scroll too much, possibly looking for something).
To see your heatmaps, go ahead and switch to the ‘Heatmaps’ tab.
Once inside, you’ll see a list of all the page heatmaps that Clarity automatically recorded.
Just click on a page you want to analyze.
Once you open a heatmap, you’ll see three main views: Clicks, Scroll, and Attention.
You can switch to ‘Click’ to see where visitors are clicking the most.
To find out your scroll depth, simply move to the ‘Scroll’ tab.
Here, Clarity will reveal how far users scroll down your page. This helps identify if they miss your key content.
Finally, go ahead and click on the ‘Attention‘ button to see the average time visitors spend on different parts of the page.
Red zones indicate higher attention, while blue areas get less.
That’s all – You’ve successfully set up WordPress heatmaps using Microsoft Clarity!
UserFeedback by MonsterInsights combines heatmap-style feedback with surveys and advanced targeting. It’s a powerful option for growing websites, online stores, and agencies needing deeper insights and more control over how to collect visitor feedback.
At WPBeginner, we have used UserFeedback to gain insights into what our web design customers want and expect from us. We’ve had a great experience with it, and you can check out our full UserFeedback review to see why we recommend it!
Step 1: Install and Activate UserFeedback
First, you’ll need to set up a UserFeedback account. You can do this by visiting the UserFeedback website and signing up for a plan.
💡 Note: There is a free version of UserFeedback if you want to explore its features. But you will need at least the Elite plan to unlock UserFeedback’s Heatmaps feature.
Once you’ve signed up for an account, you’ll be redirected to your UserFeedback account dashboard, where you can find the download link to the UserFeedback zip file and your license key.
Now, it’s time to install the plugin.
From your WordPress dashboard, you need to go to Plugins » Add New.
On the next screen, let’s search for UserFeedback.
You can then install and activate the plugin like you would any other WordPress plugin.
New to installing plugins? Here’s a detailed guide on how to install a WordPress plugin.
Once activated, you can enter your license key to unlock all the pro features that come with your plan.
To do this, you can navigate to UserFeedback » Settings. Then, simply copy and paste your license key from your UserFeedback dashboard into the ‘License Key’ field.
Go ahead and click the ‘Verify’ button to start the verification process.
In a few seconds, you should see a verification success message.
Step 2: Enable the Heatmaps Addon
Now, let’s go to UserFeedback » Addons to install the Heatmaps addon.
You can just scroll down the page to find the Heatmaps addon and click ‘Install Addon’ in the appropriate box.
Once installed, make sure it’s activated by clicking the ‘Activate’ button.
Step 3: Create a New Heatmap
With the Heatmaps addon activated, you can now create your site’s heatmap.
Let’s go to UserFeedback » Heatmaps in your WordPress dashboard, and click the ‘New Heatmap’ button.
In the popup that appears, expand the dropdown menu to select the specific page you want to track. For example, you can create a heatmap for your homepage, landing page, or blog post.
Go ahead and hit the ‘Create’ button to set up the heatmap.
Step 4: View Your Heatmap Results
After you create a heatmap, UserFeedback will start collecting user data immediately.
Let’s go to UserFeedback » Heatmaps and click on a heatmap to see detailed visual insights.
On the next screen, you’ll be able to view detailed insights about your visitors, including:
If you’re promoting your site across multiple channels, then you can also filter the data by UTM campaign, source, or medium. This helps you understand how visitors from different marketing efforts interact with your site.
And that’s all there is to it – You’ve successfully set up WordPress heatmaps using UserFeedback!
Heatmaps are only useful if you know how to act on what they’re telling you. Here’s how to turn the insights from your heatmaps into real improvements for your WordPress site.
Fix Where Visitors Drop Off
You can use scroll maps to see how far down your visitors go on a page. If important content is buried too far down the page, then most people may never see it.
You can try moving key elements like CTAs or offers higher on the page, and break up long pages with smaller sections and clear headings. You can also use date filters to track how these changes affect visitor behavior over time.
This small change can reduce bounce rates and keep your visitors engaged longer.
Spot and Solve User Confusion
Sometimes, visitors try to click on images, icons, or text that aren’t clickable. This shows that they’re confused or expecting something different.
You can review your click maps and mouse movements to spot these areas. If necessary, you can link those images or add buttons nearby to make things easier for users.
You can also set up a quick survey with UserFeedback to ask what users were expecting to find.
Identify and Fix Navigation Issues
If you see visitors frequently jumping between pages without clear direction, it’s a sign that your navigation may be confusing.
Simplify your navigation by making sure information is easy to find and adjusting anything that could cause confusion. You can also walk through important steps on your site like a first-time visitor to ensure everything functions properly.
You may also want to see our guide on how to create a custom navigation menu in WordPress.
Make Your CTA Buttons Impossible to Miss
If your CTAs (call-to-action buttons) aren’t getting enough clicks, then I recommend adjusting their color, text, or placement to make them stand out more.
Go ahead and use your mouse movement insights to spot hesitation before clicking and check device filters to ensure your CTAs are visible and easy to click on all devices, especially mobile.
🧑💻 Pro Tip: Making changes to your content and design is just the start. I also highly recommend setting up A/B tests to compare different versions of a page or element, like button placement, colors, or headline text, to see what performs best.
For detailed instructions, please refer to our guide on how to do A/B split testing in WordPress.
I hope this article has helped you set up WordPress heatmaps. Next, you might want to explore our expert-curated landing page tips to skyrocket WordPress conversions and our ultimate guide on geolocation targeting.
If you liked this article, then please subscribe to our YouTube Channel for WordPress video tutorials. You can also find us on Twitter and Facebook.
The post How to Setup WordPress Heatmaps (2 Easy Ways) first appeared on WPBeginner.
Last week, a friend who manages multiple WordPress sites called me in a panic. A routine plugin update had broken his client’s navigation menu, but he didn’t notice until customers started complaining.
This is a common problem I’ve seen countless times, and it’s exactly why visual regression testing is so important for WordPress website owners.
Visual regression testing might sound complicated. However, it’s actually a simple solution that can save you hours of manual checking and prevent embarrassing layout issues.
Typically, it works by automatically comparing before-and-after screenshots of your pages. This helps catch even the smallest visual changes that might break your site’s appearance. 🔍
In this guide, I’ll show you how to do visual regression testing on your WordPress site. After testing numerous tools and methods, I’ve found the most reliable solution that won’t require any coding knowledge or technical expertise.
Every time you update your site — whether it’s a WordPress core update, a new plugin, a theme change, or just a minor code tweak — there’s a chance that something on the front end might shift out of place.
For example, a button could disappear, your layout might break, or a product image could stop loading properly.
The problem? These visual bugs often go unnoticed until a visitor points them out through a contact form or design feedback survey.
By then, the damage to your site’s user experience might already be done.
That’s where visual regression testing comes in.
The process is simple: take snapshots of your pages before and after an update, then compare them to spot anything that’s changed.
And if you’re testing on a staging site (which we recommend), you can safely make updates and run comparisons to catch visual issues before anything goes live.
The good news? You don’t have to do it manually.
With visual regression testing tools like VRTs, Percy, or BackstopJS, you can automate screenshot comparisons and check how your site looks across different screen sizes — helping you catch layout issues on desktop, tablet, and mobile.
Why is this important for WordPress users?
If you’re managing a WordPress website, visual regression testing is a time-saving safety net. Instead of clicking through every page after an update, this tool gives you a visual report of what changed — and whether it’s something you need to fix.
It’s especially helpful in many scenarios, such as agencies running updates across multiple WordPress sites, freelancers managing client websites, or online store owners who want to make sure the product and checkout pages stay intact.
In short, visual regression testing helps you avoid frustrating surprises, save time, and keep your WordPress site running smoothly.
With that said, I’ll share how to easily do visual regression testing in WordPress. Here’s a quick overview of all the steps I’ll cover in this guide:
🧑💻 Pro Tip: Before running visual regression tests or making design changes, I highly recommend using a staging site.
A staging site is a private clone of your live website where you can safely test updates, plugin changes, or design tweaks — without affecting your users. It helps you catch layout issues, missing buttons, or visual bugs before they go live.
Not sure how to set one up? Just see our step-by-step guide on creating a WordPress staging site for all the details.
In this tutorial, I’ll use the VRTs plugin because it’s beginner-friendly and super easy to use for visual regression testing. Whether that is a shifted layout, a missing button, or a broken element after an update, VRTs helps you spot it early.
Here’s how it works: The plugin takes screenshots of the pages you select. You can then trigger comparisons manually or schedule them to run automatically after making changes to your site, such as updating a plugin or tweaking your theme.
The plugin then compares the ‘before’ and ‘after’ screenshots side-by-side and highlights any visual differences.
So, instead of manually checking every page, you get a quick visual report showing what changed, and whether anything looks off.
To install the plugin, you first need to visit the VRTs website and sign up for a plan by clicking on the ‘Get started for free’ button.
You can then choose one of the plans. The free plan will allow you to test up to 3 pages per day on one domain and schedule daily tests.
On the other hand, paid plans will allow you to test a higher number of pages, run manual tests, and automatically run visual regression tests after WordPress core, plugin, and theme updates.
Simply click on ‘Buy now’ or ‘Install now’ underneath the plan you want to use.
Then, follow the instructions to sign up for an account on the VRTs website and add your payment details.
Once you have completed the payment, you will land on your VRTs dashboard, where you can download the plugin as a .zip file.
Then, simply head to Plugins » Add Plugin and click on the ‘Upload Plugin’ button. From here, you can choose the VRTs plugin .zip file that you just downloaded.
Make sure to activate the plugin once it has been installed. For full details, you can see our guide on how to install a WordPress plugin.
Once you’ve activated the plugin, it’s time to set up when your visual regression tests should run.
Head over to VRTs » Settings in your WordPress admin menu.
Once inside, you can scroll down to the ‘Triggers’ section — this is where you tell the plugin when to automatically take and compare snapshots.
Here are the available options:
Once you’ve selected the trigger that fits your workflow (or your license), simply click the ‘Save Changes’ button at the bottom of the page.
Once you’ve configured the plugin settings, it’s time to choose which pages or posts you’d like to include in your visual regression tests.
Let’s now switch to the ‘Tests’ tab, which is where you’ll manage and run your visual tests.
From here, you can click the ‘Add New’ button. This will let you choose posts or pages to test.
In the popup that appears, you need to choose the pages or posts you want to perform the visual regression testing on.
Then, click ‘Add New Test’ to confirm your selections.
The VRTs plugin will take an initial snapshot of each selected page. This acts as your baseline — basically a “before” version of how your posts or pages look right now.
After setting up your test, you’ll see an instruction to refresh the page to load the initial snapshot. Go ahead and do just that.
With that done, you’ll find a link to the page or post snapshot you added for testing.
You will also see that the ‘Test Status’ is automatically set to ‘Scheduled’ for the next day. This is because the free version of VRTs runs tests on a 24-hour schedule.
You can click the ‘View Snapshot’ link to check the initial screenshot.
It will open in a new tab like this:
Now, you can make any changes you need to your site. Then, come back tomorrow to review the comparison and spot any unexpected visual issues.
Once the test is complete and any visual bugs are detected, you should see a notification alert in the VRTs » Runs tab.
Once inside, you can hover over the run with changes detected.
Then, click the ‘Show Details’ link when it appears.
On the next screen, you’ll see a side-by-side comparison of your page, showing the before and after versions.
The plugin automatically highlights visual differences, so you can quickly spot:
You can use the drag handle in the center of the screen to slide between the old and new versions and visually confirm the exact changes.
After running a visual regression test, you can take action based on the results. Here’s what you can do next:
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Some of our business websites currently use Duplicator for backups and site migrations, and I highly recommend checking it out. Read our full Duplicator review to learn more!
If you’re just getting started with visual regression testing, you’re not alone. Here are some quick answers to common questions I often hear from WordPress users and developers.
What is the difference between snapshot testing and visual regression testing?
Snapshot testing checks if your website’s code or content stays the same, kind of like saving a backup of how things are supposed to be.
Visual regression testing, on the other hand, focuses on the appearance of your site. It compares screenshots before and after updates to catch layout changes, missing elements, or visual bugs you might not notice right away.
What is the best tool for visual regression testing in WordPress?
The easiest option is the VRTs – Visual Regression Tests plugin. It’s beginner-friendly, doesn’t require any coding, and runs directly from your dashboard. Plus, it has a free version that’s super easy to use.
How can I do regression testing manually?
Manual regression testing means going through your site and checking key pages after you make changes, like installing a new plugin or updating your theme.
You’ll want to visit your homepage, contact page, checkout process (if you have one), and any custom layouts to make sure everything still looks and works as it should. It works, but it can be time-consuming if you manage a large or busy site.
How do you speed up regression testing?
The best way to save time is to automate it. Using a plugin like VRTs – Visual Regression Tests lets you create snapshots of your important pages and quickly compare them after an update.
No need to manually click through every page — the plugin does the visual check for you.
You can also test updates on a staging site first, so you’re not fixing issues on a live site.
What are the best ways to test WordPress website design?
Here are a few tips to test your WordPress design:
I hope this article has helped you learn how to do visual regression testing in WordPress. Next, you might want to check our article on creating chat rooms in WordPress for your users and the best user experience feedback questions to ask site visitors.
If you liked this article, then please subscribe to our YouTube Channel for WordPress video tutorials. You can also find us on Twitter and Facebook.
The post How to Easily Do Visual Regression Testing in WordPress first appeared on WPBeginner.
Starbucks (NASDAQ: SBUX) has been undergoing changes over the past several months in an effort to turn around its business and get back to growth. CEO Brian Niccol took over back in September and has been working on improving the in-store experience for customers. The company is still in the early stages of that turnaround, but Niccol is seeing progress.
Recently, Starbucks released its latest quarterly numbers, which showed positive growth. And Niccol is optimistic that better results are ahead for the business. With the coffee stock down around 30% from its 52-week high at the time of this writing, has it become a no-brainer buy?
Where to invest $1,000 right now? Our analyst team just revealed what they believe are the 10 best stocks to buy right now. Continue »
Image source: Getty Images.
On April 29, coffee giant Starbucks reported its second-quarter earnings numbers. For the period ending March 30, consolidated net revenue rose by 2% to $8.8 billion. And the company's global comparable-store sales were down by just 1% -- in the previous quarter, the decline was as much as 4%. While those aren't blowout numbers, they do show that, at least for now, things may be stabilizing.
Niccol was encouraged with the results and the company's turnaround thus far, stating, "We are on track and if anything, I see more opportunity than I imagined." The new CEO has been working on making the Starbucks experience better for customers, which has included simplifying the menu and working on improving wait times at stores.
At first glance, it may appear as though Starbucks is generating good, modest growth, and could be making a solid turnaround. But don't forget that the company is coming off some poor quarters and lapping some underwhelming comparable numbers. Consider that the company's revenue two years ago, in the same quarter, totaled $8.7 billion -- nearly as much as it generated this past quarter.
The top line is effectively flat over a two-year window and puts into context the challenges that Starbucks has been enduring during that time frame. Meanwhile, the $384 million in profit it posted last quarter was just a fraction of the $908 million in earnings it reported two years ago.
And so while the lack of change in the top line may be underwhelming, what's even more concerning is the significant drop on the bottom line. When looking at the bigger picture, the results don't nearly look as impressive anymore.
Investors also shouldn't forget that given the macroeconomic uncertainty in the markets today, Starbucks' results may look even less impressive in the future. While the CEO is optimistic, investors often need to take such excitement from management with a grain of salt.
As of Monday's close, shares of Starbucks have fallen by around 11% since the start of the year. And the stock trades at roughly 30 times its trailing earnings, which is high compared to the S&P 500 average of 23.
Given the risk and uncertainty facing Starbucks, it should arguably be trading for more of a discount. I wouldn't rush out to buy the stock, as its results weren't all that impressive when you compare to where it was just two years ago. And although Niccol is optimistic about the future, investors should brace for more challenges ahead, as Starbucks still has a long way to go in proving that it can turn things around, grow its business at a high rate, and improve upon its bottom line.
For now, this is a stock I'd put on a watch list and take a wait-and-see approach.
Before you buy stock in Starbucks, consider this:
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David Jagielski has no position in any of the stocks mentioned. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Starbucks. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.
In this podcast, Motley Fool analyst Asit Sharma and host Mary Long discuss:
Then, Motley Fool analyst Yasser el-Shimy joins Mary for a look at Warner Brothers Discovery, in the first of a two-part series about the entertainment conglomerate and its controversial CEO.
Where to invest $1,000 right now? Our analyst team just revealed what they believe are the 10 best stocks to buy right now. Continue »
To catch full episodes of all The Motley Fool's free podcasts, check out our podcast center. When you're ready to invest, check out this top 10 list of stocks to buy.
A full transcript is below.
Before you buy stock in Starbucks, consider this:
The Motley Fool Stock Advisor analyst team just identified what they believe are the 10 best stocks for investors to buy now… and Starbucks wasn’t one of them. The 10 stocks that made the cut could produce monster returns in the coming years.
Consider when Netflix made this list on December 17, 2004... if you invested $1,000 at the time of our recommendation, you’d have $623,685!* Or when Nvidia made this list on April 15, 2005... if you invested $1,000 at the time of our recommendation, you’d have $701,781!*
Now, it’s worth noting Stock Advisor’s total average return is 906% — a market-crushing outperformance compared to 164% for the S&P 500. Don’t miss out on the latest top 10 list, available when you join Stock Advisor.
*Stock Advisor returns as of May 5, 2025
This video was recorded on April 30, 2025
Mary Long: A dollar saved is a dollar earned, so a minute saved is what? You're listening to Motley Fool Money. I'm Mary Long joined today by Mr. Asit Sharma. Asit, good to see you. How are you doing?
Asit Sharma: I'm great, Mary. How are you doing? Good to see you.
Mary Long: I'm doing well. We got reports from Starbucks today, that's the coffee chain that most listeners are probably pretty familiar with. They're in the midst of a turnaround. They dropped earnings yesterday after the bell. I want to kick us off by focusing on Starbucks' measurement of a different currency, not dollars, but time, Asit. A big focus of Starbucks' turnaround is returning the chain to its golden age of being a neighborhood coffee house. But as a part of that, there's also a focus on efficiency. Management seems to think they're making good progress on that efficiency front. The company shaved two minutes off its in store wait times thanks to the help of a swinky ordering algorithm. If you had an extra two minutes in each of your days, what would you be doing with that time?
Asit Sharma: Well, I'm not giving it back to TikTok and YouTube shorts, I'm done with you guys. I'm grabbing the cast iron bookmark, breaking out of that house, and I'm getting two minutes extra to read Orbital by Samantha Harvey, which is my Middle Age men's book club read of the month, and I'm behind, I need it finished by Saturday.
Mary Long: It sounds like you're being very productive with those extra two minutes.
Asit Sharma: Living my best life.
Mary Long: There's a detail here that's very interesting to me because notably, this algorithm that's shaved off these two minutes of order times is not powered by artificial intelligence. Instead, it follows an if then structure. This is fascinating to me because it seems like every other company is going out of their way to highlight its AI capabilities, build themselves as an AI company, even if they don't really play in the tech space. What does it say about Starbucks that they seemingly have an opportunity to do that with the rollout of this algorithm and yet they're not?
Asit Sharma: Well, on the one hand, I think they would love to be able to float some great AI stuff to the market, but truthfully, everyone knows that it's going to take more than AI to solve Starbucks' problems, so let's get real here and go back to some very elementary type of algorithmic thinking to solve some of the throughput issues they have.
Mary Long: Again, Starbucks seems pretty proud of these shorter wait times, but that doesn't necessarily seem to be translating into great sales numbers quite yet. I'm going to call out some metrics from the report, including same store sales, which is closely watched here, and you tell me how you're interpreting these numbers. Do they spell to you, Asit Sharma, promise or peril for the coffee company? We'll kick things off with same store sales. In the US, that's down about 3% for the quarter. What do you say, Asit, promise, peril, something in between?
Asit Sharma: I think that's an easy peril. This is the trend at Starbucks. They're losing a little bit of traffic. They're trying to turn it around to get people to come back into the stores or come back to the drive throughs. They have a strategy for this, back to the good old days. We can chat about this. But this is emblematic of Starbucks larger problem, so this is a peril call, easy.
Mary Long: Two hundred and thirteen net new store openings in the second quarter, bringing the total store count to nearly 40,800 around the world. Promise, peril, something in between?
Asit Sharma: Promise. I like that. Brian Niccol, turnaround artist. Let's slow this puppy down. Why should we be expanding when we don't have the unit economics right? Why should we be expanding when CapEx, capital expenditure is one of the things dragging this company down? Most people don't realize Starbucks has a pretty big debt load because it has invested so much in its stores over the years. Why don't we try to figure out how we can solve some of our problems with operating expenses versus capital expenditure? Let's also try to renovate stores at a lower cost. All of this points to taking it very easy on that new store development, so I like that, it's promise.
Mary Long: Just to be clear, you're saying that that 213 net new store openings number sits right at the sweet spot of, Hey, you're still growing, but it's at a small enough clip that it's not distracting from the real focus, which is improving throughput at existing stores?
Asit Sharma: Yeah. It's also a signal that the new management isn't taking the easy way out. Conceivably, one way you could solve Starbucks' problems would be to take on a little bit more debt and to speed up new stores and to say, We're going to actually increase revenue, but traffic will take a bit of time to come back to the stores. We know people of our brand, so we're going to throw a bunch more stores out in places where we don't have this dense concentration and cannibalization. We're going to map this great real estate strategy out. They could have easily said that, but I don't think the market would have liked it too much, so they're doing the sensible thing, which is like, we're not really worried about adding new stores right now, that's not the problem that we have to solve today.
Mary Long: Our next quick hit metric, GAAP operating margin down about 7% compared to a year ago. How do you feel about that one?
Asit Sharma: It's a little bit of peril situation going on there, Mary. Starbucks is doing something which I think should help the business, which is to say, we've got a couple of pain points for customers. One is the time that it takes for customers to get through their order, average wait times of four minutes. You pointed out going this algorithmic route, so very old school. If a drink is very complex to make, don't make that the first thing you do, or in some cases, maybe you should if it has x number of ingredients, so that way it's ready and the stuff isn't melting on top when the customer gets it. Don't just do first come first serve. I think that is a really insightful way to start from scratch if you're a new CEO. Starbucks has these problems which they're thinking can be solved by labor. Then bring more people in so that we can satisfy customers, we can keep that throughput moving, but that increases your operating expenses, and they've got leftover depreciation from all of the investments they've made in technology.
Under the previous CEO, they were trying to solve their problems by having more components like the clover vertica which make things automatic, and they had a cool brew system, which was very expensive, so now we're seeing that work through the profit and loss statement. What we're seeing in the GAAP numbers is that net income is going to be pressured. Number 1, they still have a lot of depreciation that they have to account for, and Number 2, to keep customers happy, which should be the first order of business, they're going to have to hire more baristas, keep those shifts occupied. That is not a clear out type situation, it will take time to resolve. That's a peril.
Mary Long: Last but not least, we got GAAP earnings per share. That's down about 50% compared to a year ago. I think I know where you might land on this one. What do you say?
Asit Sharma: It's a peril. Something that was a little iffy in the earnings call is both Brian Niccol and his new CFO, who's actually a veteran of the retail business, Cathy Smith. They were like, don't worry about earnings per share too much. We really think you should focus on us taking care of the customer, us becoming that third place again, us becoming the brand that attracts people, us being the place where you can have these day parts like the afternoon where we're going to revive your desire to come into the store and maybe have a non alcoholic aperitif, mind you, I'm not sure that's what investors want to hear. Investors will give a long line to Brian Niccol because he has been successful in the past, and so has his new CFO. But I didn't like that, don't pay attention to this because we're investors, we want money. We give you money, you make money, you give us back money in terms of dividends and share price, so a little bit of peril there.
Mary Long: Another data point that I do think is relevant to the Starbucks story and just like the consumer story more broadly is GDP data, which we got out this morning. That showed a contraction of 0.3% down from 2.4% growth a quarter ago. This is the first decline since the start of 2022. Starbucks can improve wait times all they want, they can implement this back to Starbucks strategy, but if we are headed toward a recession and the company is already still struggling, how does that macro picture affect this chain that sells seven dollars drip coffees and $10 lattes to people?
Asit Sharma: Mary, the first thing I'm going to ask you is, I actually throw circumstance Kanata Starbucks once every two weeks, and I buy drip coffee and sometimes hot chocolate, and we'll buy a pastry here and there. Where are you getting these seven dollar drip coffees from? Is that some venti with adding some special milk? I don't get that. It is expensive, stop, but seven sounds excessive.
Mary Long: Okay, Asit. I was at a Marriott Hotel earlier this month for a latte.
Asit Sharma: Here we have the first qualification. Like, well, I was at the airport Starbucks. It's not the airport Starbucks, but everyone listen to Mary. It was at Marriott Hotel. Go ahead.
Mary Long: There are some asterisks attached to this example, but it fired me up, so I'm going to use this platform to share it. I'm at Marriott in Collierville Tennessee for a wedding earlier this month. There is no free coffee in the lobby at this hotel, which was my first red flag. I go down searching for coffee, and all that there is is a Starbucks Bistro, so I say, Okay, I'll go to the Starbucks Bistro, buy my coffee. It was a large, but it was a drip coffee. No fills, so easy, they turn around, pour the cup, and it cost me $7.50. I was so enraged, I was ready to throw that coffee across the lobby. I did not. I held it in, but I'm using this moment to share that. That is a real number. Though, again, perhaps that's not the price at every Starbucks.
Asit Sharma: Well, I want to extrapolate from that. Which is to say, if it's seven bucks at that Marriott, that tells us something about what's happened to the price over the last few years because in all honesty, that entry level drip coffee, a tall order with nothing on it has increased. I'm going to guess it's 30-40% more than it was just two years ago. Now, some may say that this is taking a little bit advantage of commodity inflation and inflation in general, that Starbucks took an opportunity to bump up those prices, even though it has tremendous purchasing power, and it should be one of the first places to say, Hey, we're going to hold your price steady because we're Starbucks, because we buy from I don't know how many coffee providers across the globe. It's interesting Brian Niccol is saying, We're not going to raise prices anymore this year. I think he's sensing the winds and maybe realizes that Starbucks took a little bit of advantage of its most loyal customers by bumping up these prices.
This is yet another thing that makes this very hard. But all in all, I do want to give the new team credit for leaning toward, again, OpEx people versus machines because under the previous management, Starbucks was really thinking that it could solve so many things by having automation. They could improve the rate at which people are going through the drive through lines and the wait times that you have even if you ordered in advance on your mobile order app, and it became something where they lost connection with the customer, and management, of course, is well aware of that. But it reminds me of something that Ray Kroc said years ago, the man who bought McDonald's when it was all of two restaurants, I think, and turned it into what it is today, he said, Hell, if I listened to the computers and did what they proposed with McDonald's, I'd have a store with a row of vending machines in it. Under the previous leadership, I almost felt like that's where they thought they could go, it's just a really automated format without this customer connection. Bringing that back, even though it sounds a little iffy, Mary, whoever is going to go back to Starbucks as a real third place when so many great community coffee shops have sprung up and our consumption preferences have changed? I still applaud management for getting that, that you've got to do right by your customers, price wise, ambience wise, connection wise, brand wise. Maybe there's something in there. Of course, this is a harder problem to solve than Brian Niccol had at Chipotle.
Mary Long: I want to close this out by getting another look at the fast casual business from a different company, one that really is leaning more into this digital landscape, and that's Wingstop. Not even a year ago, this chicken wing joint was flying very high, indeed. Shares have dropped significantly since then, down about 45% from their high in September 2024. We're going to get to their earnings that dropped this morning, which were more positive in just a moment, but before we get them, let's look at the past several months. Why that drop? What headwinds was this company up against?
Asit Sharma: Wingstop created its own headwinds in a way, Mary, because it had been so successful improving same store sales. The company has a really light real estate footprint, stores are incredibly small compared to some of their wing competitors, and they're meant for just going in, maybe sitting down, but mostly picking up and taking away. They really started to get a deeper concentration, some good metropolitan markets, not huge ones, but decent markets. They saw such an increase in traffic that their comparable stores went through the roof on what's called a two year stack. You compare what you sold today versus not just one year, but two years ago. When you lap great results, it becomes really hard. You can't keep increasing those results exponentially. This year, it turns out what they're doing is holding the gains over the past two years, but it's not like they're having another year where you're seeing same store sales increase by 25%. The projections were, this year we're going to grow those same store sales by mid digits to single high digits, and with this latest report, they're saying, Well, they could be flat this year. The market like the report for different reasons. But that's what happened to the stock because investors were like, Wait a minute. You're spending more on marketing. Yeah, because we're getting to the NBA. We're the official wing of the NBA. But I want those profits. Well, you're not going to get them because we're scaling, and people are just lining up to develop new franchises, and we're going to build this business out globally.
Investors were a little bit confused last quarter. We're not getting profits that we want or as much profit as we want. We're not getting the growth that we want to see. But in the grand scheme of things, those were very understandable pauses in the business model and the economic model, and I think over time, it's destined to pick up. But you had some questions about the earnings today.
Mary Long: Help us make sense of this most recent quarter because, OK, we saw a teeny tiny improvement in same-store sales. That number only ticked up by 0.5%. But there are some other numbers that seemed pretty impressive. You've got systemwide sales increasing almost 16%, hitting $1.3 billion, total revenue up almost 17.5%, net income increasing, wait for it, 221%. That's all in spite of what's obviously a very tricky, very uncertain macro environment. We've already seen that impact trickle down to other fast-casual chains. Domino's, for instance, reported a decline in same-store sales earlier this week, which is pretty rare for them. What's working and what's not in the Wingstop model, as we've just seen it reported today?
Asit Sharma: Wingstop has been a company that's invested a lot in its technology. They've moved digital orders to some, I think, 70% now of their sales. That helps them with a leaner cost structure. Also, Mary, the company has its tremendous cash on cash returns. If you're an investor, let's say, a franchisee in a Wingstop business, you can make 70% cash on cash returns, 50% if you use financing, and that's just a stellar type of return in the QSR, quick service restaurant industry. What they have is tremendous demand in their development pipeline. Their franchise groups are like, we love this, we want more, and that's propelling a really fast store growth count. With Starbucks, they're slowing down. Wingstop is trying to build out new units as fast as possible, and that's where the growth is coming from. What investors are seeing is, I can live with this equation. You have a lean operation. You don't really own your own supply chain. You work with partners, so you've got less exposure to that. You seem to be able to manage all-important bone-in chicken price really well and not pass those increases on to customers for the most part, so I want in and I want to develop more stores.
I will note that the company, one of the things that investors did like earlier this year, is the company keeps increasing its total advertising spend based on systemwide sales. It used to be 3%. Then it was 4% of systemwide sales was advertising budget for local markets. Now it's something like 5.5%. But look, with these big brand partnerships, like I mentioned with the NBA, and a lot more advertising in local markets, that's only increasing the flywheel of returns for the franchisees. This is a company that just looks destined to grow, almost like Dunkin' Donuts did in the early days. That's. A powerful equation for investors who can withstand the volatility of angst over same-store sales in any given quarter. Think of this as like, I'm going to buy this business for 10 years, and I'm going to watch it expand into Europe, into the Middle East, here in the States, and I'm going to watch you take market share from some of the bigger competitors who have larger store footprints. Of course, there's a lot that can go wrong in that. They have to keep executing and they have to make sure that they do manage those all-important bone-in chicken cost over time. But I like their chances in this environment.
Mary Long: Asit Sharma, always a pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks so much for giving us some insight into coffee and bone-in chicken wings today.
Asit Sharma: Thanks a lot, Mary. I had a lot of fun.
Mary Long: Two of the biggest movies of the year, a Minecraft movie and Sinners, both came out of Warner Brothers Studios. But there's a lot more to this company than its movie-baking business. Despite the success of those two films, the stock WBD has been far from a winner for its shareholders. Up next, I talk to Fool analyst Yasser El-Shimy about Warner Brothers Discovery. This is the first in a two-part series. Today, we talk about the business. Tomorrow, we shine the spotlight on David Zaslav; the character charged with leading this conglomerate into the future.
Warner Brothers Discovery came to be as a result of a 2022 merger between Warner Media, which is the film and television studio that was spun off from AT&T, and Discovery, another television studio. Together, today, this is a massive entertainment conglomerate, and it owns the likes of HBO, Max, CNN, Discovery Plus, the Discovery Channel; a mix of streaming services and traditional cable networks. One of the reasons, Yasser, why I find this company so interesting is because you can't really talk too much about it without hearing all these different names, all these different services, a fascinating history of mergers and acquisitions and spin-offs, etc. I want to focus today mostly on the person who has been tasked with leading this massive conglomerate into the shaky future of media. But before we get to David Zaslav, let's talk first about the company. Again, WBD is a big conglomerate. What are the most important things about this business as it exists today that investors need to know?
Yasser El-Shimy: Well, thanks, Mary. To tell the story of WBD is to almost tell the story of entertainment itself in the United States. We're talking about structural challenges that are afflicting almost all television and film studios across the board, as well as TVs on TV networks. On the one hand, you have a structural decline of linear TV viewership. That is your basic cable, basically people, paying a monthly fee for whatever provider there might be to get a whole host of channels that they flip through at home. We've heard of the phenomena of cord-cutting. It has almost become a cliche at this point. It has been going on for years, at least over a decade at this point, but recently, it seems to have accelerated even further as people migrate more and more toward streaming options, subscribing to such channels as Netflix and Disney+ and Max and others. This has created quite a dilemma for a lot of studios like Warner Brothers Discovery, where much of the profits and the free cash flow has traditionally come from those very lucrative linear TV deals that they have had with the likes of Charter Communications and others. They have had to effectively wage a war on two fronts. They are being disrupted by the likes of Netflix, they're losing subscribers on the linear TV site, but at the same time, they can't go all in on streaming, at least not just yet, because so much of their profit and so much of their sales actually come from that linear TV side that is declining.
What do you do? You try and just be everything to all people, and that has become a challenge. Warner Brothers is no different here. We're talking about a company that started off in 2022, as a result of that merger. You talked about between Discovery and Warner Brothers. Since then, they have focused on two main objectives. The first one is to pay down as much of the debt on the balance sheet as possible, and we can get to that later, and the second goal has been to try and effectively promote and develop their streaming business. Initially, it was HBO Plus, now it's called Max, and try and actively compete with the likes of Netflix and Disney. They've actually done rather OK on that front, as well.
Mary Long: Let's talk about the debt before we move on because this is a big gripe with the business as it exists today. Warner Brothers Discovery carries $34.6 billion in net debt. That's as of the end of fiscal 2024. You get to that number because there's $40 billion gross debt minus $5.5 billion of cash on hand. How did they end up with so much debt? $34.6 billion is a lot of debt. How did they end up with so much of that in the first place?
Yasser El-Shimy: That is a lot of debt. Let's just say that David Zaslav who was the head of Discovery, he was very enthusiastic about putting his hands on those assets from Warner Brothers. As a result, he actually saw that merger with the Warner Brothers assets from AT&T. AT&T took a huge loss on the price it had originally paid to acquire Time Warner, a 40% loss. However, what they did do is that they effectively put all the debt that they had from that business, as well as some of their own debt, into this new entity that was to merge with Discovery. Warner Brothers Discovery just was born with a massive debt load of $55 billion or so. That was nearly five times net debt to EBITDA, or earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, which was very high leverage for this new company. From the very beginning, Warner Brothers Discovery had to deal with paying down that huge debt load. Luckily, a lot of that debt was in long-term debt effectively that most of it will mature around 2035. Can be easily rolled over. It has an average interest rate of about 4.7%. It's not the worst in the world. Considering how much cash flow per year that Warner Brothers Discovery is able to produce around, again, the $5 billion range or more, you can see that the company has been able to effectively navigate this and pay down that debt. David Zaslav has paid down over around $12 billion since that merger took place. That leaves them with the $40 billion you're talking about. Still more to go, but at least you can see that they are able to accomplish that feat.
Mary Long: Let's also hit on the streaming service because that's an essential part WBD and where it wants to go in the future. Max, which is the streaming service that's basically HBO plus others allegedly has a clear path to hitting, this is per their most recent earnings, at least 150 million global subscribers by the end of 2026. At 150 million global subscribers, that would make it about half of Netflix's current size. What metrics and what numbers does Max have to post in order to be considered a success?
Yasser El-Shimy: I would say that Max has to, again, focus on growing that subscriber base, and they have done an excellent job at that. They've almost doubled subscribers year over year, reaching around 117 million subscribers currently. They accomplished that through a strategy that had two wings to it. The first is that they effectively bundled a lot of content into the Max service. The previous HBO Plus service, it merely had some TV and film IP that the studios produced from the namesake HBO, but also from the Warner Brothers Studios. But then they decided to expand that to include also shows and other content from the reality TV side of the Discovery side of the business. Think of your home network, HGTV, or Food Network, and so on. They accommodate a lot of that content in there. They also introduced live sports and live news into the Max. That made it a lot more appealing to be a place where you can have almost all of your viewing needs met. That has been a successful strategy for them. They have also struck a partnership with Disney to bundle Disney+, Hulu, and Max together for a reduced price, but that has definitely also helped with the increase in their subscription numbers. But I would also be remiss to say that they have successfully and actively sought to expand their presence in international markets.
They are still at less than half the markets where Netflix is, so the opportunity is still pretty vast on there. However, as you started your question with asking about the metrics that we need to be watching out for, obviously, we need to be watching out, as I said, for subscriber numbers, as well as the EBITDA operating margins that will come from the streaming side. They are targeting around 20%, which would actually very good if that turns out to be the case, long term. But also we need to look at things like average revenue per user or ARPU. How much are these subscribers contributing, both to the top and bottom line for Max? I think on this metric, there might be a little less confidence because especially when you expand internationally, you're going to get a lot of subscribers who are not paying as much as a US subscriber might, so you might be looking at a decline there. On the bright side, they've introduced advertising as part of the package, but the basic package that you get. That strategy we have seen it successfully play out with Netflix, and I think that they may be able to increase or ad revenue on Max, and that can be a big contributor for their profits as well.
Mary Long: As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about and the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against, so don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. All personal finance content follows Motley Fool editorial standards and is not approved by advertisers. For the Motley Fool Money Team, I'm Mary Long. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.
Asit Sharma has positions in Marriott International, McDonald's, Walt Disney, and Wingstop. Mary Long has no position in any of the stocks mentioned. Yasser El-Shimy has positions in Warner Bros. Discovery and Wingstop. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Netflix, Starbucks, Walt Disney, and Warner Bros. Discovery. The Motley Fool recommends Marriott International and Wingstop. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.
Some stocks are extremely recession-resistant, like Waste Management (NYSE: WM). Some consumer discretionary stocks are also likely to hold up better than most, and beaten-down stocks Walt Disney (NYSE: DIS) and Starbucks (NASDAQ: SBUX) definitely fit into this category.
*Stock prices used were the morning prices of April 22, 2025. The video was published on April 23, 2025.
Where to invest $1,000 right now? Our analyst team just revealed what they believe are the 10 best stocks to buy right now. Continue »
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Matt Frankel has positions in Starbucks and Walt Disney. Tyler Crowe has no position in any of the stocks mentioned. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Starbucks and Walt Disney. The Motley Fool recommends Waste Management. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.
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Ever since President Donald Trump announced his tariff plan, there's been no shortage of stocks that are trading for a big discount to their previous highs. This includes some of the most rock-solid brands in the world.
I've been gradually taking advantage of opportunities to add to my favorite long-term investments during this turbulent time. Although it's entirely possible for the stock market to remain volatile for a while, it looks like an excellent time to add shares of industry-leading companies like Walt Disney (NYSE: DIS) and Starbucks (NASDAQ: SBUX), and that's exactly what I did recently.
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Walt Disney struggled in the post-pandemic years to bring its streaming business to profitability and also may have priced its theme parks and related add-ons a bit too aggressively, without investing nearly enough in improving the customer experience. However, returning CEO Bob Iger has done a great job of setting Disney on the right path, focusing on efficiency and prioritizing investment in the cash-machine theme parks.
In the most recent quarter, Disney's revenue climbed by 5% against a tough comparable with the previous holiday season. Operating income and adjusted earnings per share grew by 31% and 44%, respectively, due to management's focus on efficiency, and the streaming business is now nicely profitable.
After the recent market declines, Disney is trading for its lowest price-to-sales multiple (P/S) since the financial crisis and is nearly 30% below its recent high. While it isn't immune to the tariff concerns (more on that in a bit), this could be a great entry point in this amazing business for long-term investors.
For the current fiscal year, management foresees about $15 billion in operating cash flow and $3 billion in buybacks. If the company's plan to invest $60 billion in its parks over a decade pays off, there could be significant growth in the years to come.
Starbucks rallied sharply in August 2024 when Brian Niccol was announced as the coffee brand's new CEO. However, the stock has now fallen by 30% in just over a month and trades for its lowest share price since before Niccol's hiring.
Niccol has made some big moves to set Starbucks on the path to turning around its sluggish growth, a plan he has called "Back to Starbucks." Just to name a few, the company has simplified its menu, focused on dramatically cutting wait times, and taken steps to improve the in-café experience. So far, the results have been promising.
The company's latest earnings surpassed analyst expectations, although comparable sales fell slightly year over year. However -- and this is a very important point -- virtually all key customer-related metrics improved on a sequential (quarter-over-quarter) basis.
In the near term, margins have been pressured by some of the investments Niccol and his team have been making. But there's also a lot the company has done that isn't reflected in the results just yet, and this is still the relatively early stages of the turnaround.
SBUX PS Ratio data by YCharts.
After the recent decline, Starbucks trades for a historically low price-to-sales ratio. If the company's turnaround efforts reinvigorate growth (and margins improve), the current price could be a bargain for long-term investors.
To be perfectly clear, both of these stocks are down for good reasons. Both have significant exposure to China, and if the trade war due to the tariffs escalates between the U.S. and China, it could certainly weigh on their results. This is especially true with Starbucks, which has nearly 7,600 stores in China -- about 19% of the company's total.
They are also both cyclical businesses, for the most part, and depend on the ability and willingness of consumers to spend money. If the tariffs trigger inflation and/or a recession, both companies could see consumers pull back on discretionary purchases.
As a long-term investor, I think both of these companies are looking very attractive. I plan to hold both stocks for years (maybe decades). During that period, recessions will come and go. But both are excellent businesses that should be able to steadily grow over the years, and investors who buy at the current depressed prices could do quite well.
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Right now, we’re issuing “Double Down” alerts for three incredible companies, and there may not be another chance like this anytime soon.
*Stock Advisor returns as of April 5, 2025
Matt Frankel has positions in Starbucks and Walt Disney. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Starbucks and Walt Disney. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.
A technique that hostile nation-states and financially motivated ransomware groups are using to hide their operations poses a threat to critical infrastructure and national security, the National Security Agency has warned.
The technique is known as fast flux. It allows decentralized networks operated by threat actors to hide their infrastructure and survive takedown attempts that would otherwise succeed. Fast flux works by cycling through a range of IP addresses and domain names that these botnets use to connect to the Internet. In some cases, IPs and domain names change every day or two; in other cases, they change almost hourly. The constant flux complicates the task of isolating the true origin of the infrastructure. It also provides redundancy. By the time defenders block one address or domain, new ones have already been assigned.
“This technique poses a significant threat to national security, enabling malicious cyber actors to consistently evade detection,” the NSA, FBI, and their counterparts from Canada, Australia, and New Zealand warned Thursday. “Malicious cyber actors, including cybercriminals and nation-state actors, use fast flux to obfuscate the locations of malicious servers by rapidly changing Domain Name System (DNS) records. Additionally, they can create resilient, highly available command and control (C2) infrastructure, concealing their subsequent malicious operations.”
© Getty Images
[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.
Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, trying to figure out a way through the tech world.
If you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wp tavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.
If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.
So on the podcast today we have Anthony Jackson.
Anthony is a true technophile whose journey has been shaped by a constant pursuit of understanding new technologies.
From a young age, Anthony’s curiosity about technology laid the foundation for a lifetime of exploration. Starting from modest beginnings in computer repair, he steadily transitioned into the world of WordPress, and the complexities of server management.
This episode really is a story, the story of trying new things, being creative, and always following curiosity wherever it may lead.
Anthony talks about his early experiences describing the moment computers first sparked his interest, and the subsequent path he charted in the technology space. Despite hurdles and frustrations, particularly with initial web development and WordPress hosting, his story is a testament to determination and resilience.
As you’ll hear, Anthony learned the ropes of many technologies from grappling with CSS for website customization, to exploring cloud computing, and the command line in Linux.
His journey took a big turn when he discovered automated Bash scripts that facilitate the deployment of open source applications like WordPress. This is what Anthony is doing right now, but you’re going to hear many stories of different pathways that led to this situation.
Throughout the episode, Anthony sheds light on his philosophy of embracing technology. He speaks about the numerous technologies he’s explored, the trials he faced along the way, and the value of cultivating his technical skills. With his Bash scripts ready to streamline server setups and deployments, Anthony envisions a future where technology is not just a tool, but a powerful ally for businesses and personal projects alike.
If you’re keen to hear some inspirational stories about overcoming tech challenges, resilience and learning, this episode is for you.
If you’re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wp tavern.com/podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.
And so without further delay, I bring you Anthony Jackson.
I am joined on the podcast today by Anthony Jackson. Hello.
[00:03:32] Anthony Jackson: Hello, Nathan. How are you?
[00:03:33] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, great. I’m very, very pleased to chat with you today, not only because you’ve got some really nice audio equipment, which makes you sound amazing, but also it’s very nice to meet new faces, new people for the first time ever. That’s what’s happening here. I’ve never met Anthony before.
But in order that both you, dear listener and I, the interviewer, get to know a bit about Anthony, would you mind giving us your little potted bio. I guess it would be best to keep that in the sphere of technology, perhaps WordPress. But just tell us a little bit about yourself, but not too many spoilers about the episode to come.
[00:04:03] Anthony Jackson: Yeah, so my name is Anthony Jackson. I’m a technical person by nature. I’ve always loved technology, always had a thing for it. Went to school for computer technology. I have my own computer repair business. So I do that on the side, part-time, while I work a full-time job, as well as grow the business that you’re going to learn about here in a little bit.
So I stay pretty busy, obviously. I love technology, I feel that it can help a lot of people. I don’t think you should ever be afraid of it. I think you should always embrace it. It’s one of those things, if you don’t get on the bandwagon now, you kind of get punished for it later.
So I’m just really excited to share with your audience my journey because it hasn’t been easy, and I’m really glad I took the leap of faith because if I didn’t I certainly wouldn’t be where I am now. So I’m just really excited to get started and talk about it and share it with you guys.
[00:04:47] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, that’s great. Thank you so much. Can I just ask, I don’t know your age, but when I was at school, so I’m now in my very, very early fifties, but when I was at school, a child at school, computers were just starting to be something that was in the market, it wasn’t the domain of universities occupying an entire room. It was something which you could hold in both arms, but they weren’t ubiquitous.
You know, maybe the school had one. It was very rare for an individual to own a computer. And so it wasn’t really until I was much older and had left school that computers became a bit of a thing which people could tinker with.
What was the experience for you? Again, I’m not trying to wrangle your age out of you, but just give us an insight into how much computing had progressed by the time you were sort of at school?
[00:05:28] Anthony Jackson: Oh my gosh, Nathan, I’ll tell you a little backstory. So my mom left me when I was younger. My dad had passed away. It was kind of just me and I lived with my aunt. She had given me a computer to go live with my mom. She had found my mom is what happened.
I turned it on and it was just an old compact, it booted up so slowly. I had no idea what it was, how it worked, what the purpose of it was. All I knew was I wanted to be on the internet. At that time it was AOL, that was the place to be.
I remember turning it on and I pressed the button on the DVD player and the tray opened, and I was like, wait, what is the sorcery? Like, and I’m like, oh, that’s cool. Okay, we’ll go with that. And the neighbor knocked on the door and said, hey, you’ve got some mail, and she gave me this disk, remember the AOL 3.0 Running Man disk? And I was like, what is this? Like, 30 minutes of the free internet. I’m like, what is the internet, right?
And I put it in this tray and I ended up setting up my account and the first words I heard were, welcome, you’ve got mail. And I’m like, no I don’t, I just checked it. And I got totally hooked immediately on this whole email thing. And I just, it blossomed, man, and I’ve been doing computers for, God, 20 years now.
So I love the backstory on it because it really changed my life. Like, I discovered the internet, email. I spent five years homeless without the internet. I never would’ve known like who to ask for help, how to get help. It truly changed my life, Nathan. It really did.
[00:06:40] Nathan Wrigley: I think there’s something quite addictive about it, but also I think, and this is from personal experience, I have no reference to psychology of the human race in general, but it would seem that some people really from a very, very early age are drawn to it on a level which is indescribable. You just have this desire to be in close proximity to a computer that’s switched on, and to be tinkering with it.
I have that, but I know people who are very dear to me that if you put them near a computer, the first thing they want to do is get out the chair and walk away. You know, there’s just no interest in it whatsoever. But I think it is something that you can be passionate about in a heartbeat.
So in your case, you know, you press the DVD button, something happened, you did it on a keyboard and something happened elsewhere over there. It’s like, ooh, these two things are connected. There’s something clever going on there.
And all of a sudden alarm bells are ringing. Like, wow, I’ve got to dig deeper into this. I know already though that you are younger than I am because you joined the computer world at a time when the internet existed. When I was playing with the first computers, basically, you switched it on and a cursor blinked, and that was it. That was the fun that you had, you had to type things in.
[00:07:45] Anthony Jackson: My first experience was Windows 3.1, back when the briefcase was around.
[00:07:49] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, so as a child leaving school, you’ve got this interest in computers and what have you. So where did the journey go from there? What were the next steps from Windows 3.1? What are some of the things that began early on? What were the dominoes that fell?
[00:08:00] Anthony Jackson: Well, I discovered Windows XP, it was the hottest thing since sliced bread. I loved XP. Vista was a hot mess. Fast forward, seven was good, eight was terrible. And then Windows 10, and now Windows 11. I figured if I learned Windows 3.1, I kind of had to follow the journey. So I started Googling the different features of Windows, realised quickly that an operating system is an operating system, it’s just where you find stuff, right?
I love the fact that I could see it progress, that I could be a part of that and help people. And that’s what really turned me onto it. So the technology thing is what really kind of gets me. I love technology. I love the fact that we can use it to have a good time, to leverage it, to grow our businesses, to do a lot of things, like podcasting and other things.
[00:08:40] Nathan Wrigley: Are you the kind of person that upon receiving a computer, desktop computer, do you like to take it apart and see what the bits are inside there, or assemble your own? Or are you purchase it from the store and let the dust gather on the inside and then dispose of it at some point, 5, 10 years later whatever it may be?
[00:08:55] Anthony Jackson: The thing that I love the most, Nathan, this is going to sound so crazy, I don’t enjoy building them. I actually don’t know how to build them. I tried once and failed miserably. But what I love nothing more in my computer repair business is when somebody comes to me and says, Tony, I need to buy a new one, I don’t know what to do, where do I start?
I love that conversation because it’s so overwhelming for a lot of people, and I have a unique way. I took a Tony Robbins class a long time ago for personal development, and they did this whole assessment on me and the results yielded that I had a way of breaking down technical information into a manner that someone can understand.
So when someone comes to me and says, I need a new computer, I’m like, okay, I got you, it’s okay. What do you need? What are you looking for? What are your concerns? And I can have a nice conversation and ease them into making a confident purchase instead of buyer’s remorse. It makes such a difference.
[00:09:43] Nathan Wrigley: I’m firmly on the Mac side of things, and when you purchase a Mac, you really only have three or four decisions to make, one of which is color. What color do you want the computer to be? But beyond that, it’s things like how much memory, how much ram, there’s very few components that you really get to choose about that.
But on the Windows side of things, for a family member, I have recently built a computer and I was actually fairly alarmed at how many choices there were for every single thing. And it really did make me realise that there’s a whole career in just being able to understand what range of graphics cards there are, what range of CPUs there are, what kind of panel could you have as a display, what the keyboards are, what the mouse are.
And that was really interesting to me. Is that something that you nerd out on then? Do you know all of the kind of serial numbers of the different graphics cards which are available?
[00:10:32] Anthony Jackson: I’m not that big of a nerd. My nerd comes out when I started Learn WordPress, that’s when the nerd came out.
[00:10:38] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Well, we’ve established your nerd credentials. That’s lovely. Let’s move on to WordPress then. When did you, firstly, when was the first time you came across WordPress, and in what context? What did you need it for?
[00:10:48] Anthony Jackson: So a long time ago I started my computer repair business, probably about eight or nine years ago. And the first thing that came to mind was a website. I was like, I have to have a website. I have a business, it’s a known fact you have to have a website, right?
Well, I didn’t know WordPress had never heard of WordPress, so I went where any other person would go, and that was to the internet to find web hosting, and I found godaddy.com. And I was like, GoDaddy it is.
I had a budget of around $3,000, and what happened was they ended up coding me a really nice HTML, CSS, web development website. But I realised quickly that I’m a picky person. I wanted things changed. I didn’t like how things aligned. OCD, like the CSS and stuff wasn’t aligning. And I wanted more control. I wanted to be able to control that.
And I remember Googling how to control your website and it said WordPress, the number one platform. I’m like, what the hell is WordPress? Okay. And I clicked, best decision of my life. I ended up going back to GoDaddy to get hosting, WordPress hosting. I didn’t know what it was, I had to kind of figure it out. And I realised quickly about shared hosting, and what it was, and how it acted, and I didn’t like the fact that I was being shared with people, it made me very angry.
I went through seven different hosting providers, 15 different WordPress for Dummies books, trying to figure things out. Was very, very hard. One day I ended up going to like, I think it was Namecheap or something, and getting a little bit better WordPress hosting with more resources because I thought that would help. And I was sitting there so frustrated because I saw a template but had no idea what to do.
And all of a sudden after tinkering with WordPress in the back end, I put the word home in what we call the primary menu. And at that point it clicked. I was like, oh my God, I can build a fully fledged website with content that’s branded to me without having to pay extra to add revisions and stuff like that.
And so for like two weeks straight, I learned how to install WordPress. I learned the art of the primary menu. I had so much fun just adding the same buttons every time, home, about, services, contact. And then I discovered page builders. That’s when things really turned. Divi was my first love, and always will be.
[00:12:50] Nathan Wrigley: Did you have to really persevere then, because it sounds like you’ve got all of the equipment in your head for dealing with technical problems. You’ve got that sort of passion to see it through to the end. I think I get quite frustrated with certain tasks and give up fairly quickly, but it sounds like you’ve got all of the bits and pieces.
10 years ago when you installed WordPress, I’m guessing it was a much more difficult enterprise than it is now. You know, you’ve got these hosting companies that you basically click one button and not only will they set your WordPress website up, they’ll send you the login links, you can probably just click a button to log in on the backend and what have you. Was it fairly frustrating, and do you think that, if you’d had a different personality type, you would’ve just thrown the baby out the bathwater and gone, nope?
[00:13:29] Anthony Jackson: A hundred percent. If I did not have my technical background, I would’ve gave up years ago. I called GoDaddy so many times for support. I can’t even begin to tell you how many times I called them. And I enjoyed calling them because when I did call them, I got to give them some great feedback because they understood completely what I was trying to do. So it was really cool. I got to see them improve and I got to see myself improve. But it was also nice to be able to call them and get it fixed because I didn’t have to explain what I was trying to do. I knew what I was trying to do.
And the design element stuff did not come until later. I spent so much time tinkering with WordPress, buying plugins. Nathan, I’ve got a repository on themeforest.net of plugins and themes that I haven’t even touched. I bought anything from caching plugins, to improve performance, to membership plugins, not knowing any idea what they’ve been. I just went on as spending spree and just bought everything. And now I’m like, what do I do with it all? Like, I don’t even know what I want to build.
[00:14:27] Nathan Wrigley: There’s a definite learning curve there. Just dealing with the nature of the internet. I don’t know quite how to put this. When I talk to people about how interesting I think the internet is, I can very often sense that people’s eyes are glazing over. You know, oh Nathan, dear Nathan, what’s the matter with you?
But I think on a very profound level that it is amazing that we live in a time where you can download free software, and with a few dollars invested in hosting, and it doesn’t have to be a lot, you can have something that the entire world, well, by that I mean people who have access to the internet, the entire world can see.
And conceptually, I just think that’s utterly remarkable. And I don’t know if it ever sort of hits you in the same way that it hits me. But you said, you know, you put the word home on your webpage, or you put something for your home screen and you have that moment of, I can do the internet. I can be on the internet.
I think that is something which gets lost so quick. But occasionally I stare at what I’m doing and think, I just click publish and there it is, and everybody can see it. And I think that’s phenomenal.
[00:15:35] Anthony Jackson: That hit me when I discovered the actual blog portion of WordPress. When I discovered that my content could go out to anybody and everybody with a click of a button. I was a little blown away. I was a little overwhelmed because I was like, this is really cool. I’ve created a piece of content for somebody that might need my help. They can just click a button and within a few seconds potentially see it. Like that is, you’re right, it’s remarkable. But it’s also really overwhelming for somebody who’s never experienced it.
[00:16:00] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, and I guess, you’ve got to be a little bit careful about what you publish and what have you. But I still think we are in an age where I think it’s easy to forget how privileged we are that we have access. Well, you and I, for example, we’ve never met. We’ve only communicated on the internet via a social network. I messaged to say would anybody enjoy coming on this podcast? You contacted me. Here we are. We’re using a browser based application to communicate with each other. And this is just totally normal now. And yet my 14-year-old self staring at the computer in the school, what we’re doing now was the realm of Star Trek.
This was the kind of thing that people in spaceships did, and yet now it’s totally normal. And sometimes I try to sort of impress upon my children how remarkable it is, but for them it’s just, no, no, no, this is what all humans have had for all time. And it just gets lost.
[00:16:49] Anthony Jackson: It is remarkable.
[00:16:50] Nathan Wrigley: Where from there then? So we’ve reached the point where you’ve discovered WordPress. What’s happened subsequently since then? It sounds like you’ve got your business all pivoted around WordPress as well. What’s the next step in the story?
[00:17:01] Anthony Jackson: Well, I went through multiple page builders, never really learned another one because I got so comfortable with Divi. I tried Elementor, didn’t really like it all that much. Tried every block builder. Discovered Gutenberg was the worst thing known to mankind. Tried buying Astra, some other, I forget the other company that has the block builder.
[00:17:20] Nathan Wrigley: Kadence maybe.
[00:17:21] Anthony Jackson: Kadence, yes, I tried them. But the thing that I didn’t like about WordPress, I loved the page builders, they made things easy, but the one thing that I hated the most is I never really had control of where to put stuff. It always was just like, this is your block, this is where it goes. I didn’t know CSS. I didn’t know HTML. I did not know how to move things, and I hated that.
Because the whole point of me going to WordPress was to have control. And when I lost control, it turned me off. I was the person who built the entire website and canceled my hosting because I wanted more control. That’s how I learned. I canceled, and bought, and canceled, and bought and thought it would get better and it didn’t, and I just pushed, and pushed, and pushed and learned.
So I started to just Google how to move things with CSS. I taught myself the basics of CSS and HTML, and a little bit of JavaScript. Not a lot, just enough to be dangerous. But I wanted control, Nathan. I wanted to be able to do things, and when I discovered that I could do that, that put me in another whole new rabbit hole. Then I discovered plugins that control CSS, selectors and all of that, so it gave me an opportunity.
[00:18:20] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I always think that WordPress kind of has been pitched at me by other human beings as this kind of catchall, easy to use solution. I think maybe you’ll get lucky and you’ll be satisfied in a way that you clearly are not, you know, if you want every pixel to be mapped perfectly from your head onto the screen, that’s not going to be the case. But maybe for many people it’s enough.
Okay, I’ve got this templated layout, it’s fine, I’m happy with that. I’ll click publish and whatever’s there is fine. But if you do want to move things around, and you do want to have a particular layout, and you want to show only these posts here and these posts here, but you want it to look entirely different from the theme that you’re using, I think it’s still very confusing.
And I think the underlying languages of HTML, CSS and JavaScript, which really these days are the underpinnings of certainly the front end of web development, they’re fairly difficult to acquire if it’s not your job. If you’re just doing this evening, weekend, it’s a bit of a hobby, I still think those things are really difficult to acquire and they’re not slowing down. You know, in the year 2025 when we’re recording this, CSS is really on a clip, it’s really modifying itself quickly. All these different sort of layout systems, flex, grid to learn and what have you.
So I think the promise of the page builders in WordPress is probably why it’s as successful as it is. If you rewind the clock 10 years, when they just started to come about, you mentioned Divi and there was Beaver Builder and, oh, all sorts of other ones. I would imagine that if you could chart the growth of WordPress, it would’ve been the novice user wanting a sort of what you see as what you get, point, click, drag, save solution that meant that WordPress grew. And it sounds like you fitted into that niche quite nicely.
[00:19:56] Anthony Jackson: Yeah, I wanted to know why. Why it wasn’t working. Why the block couldn’t move. I was very irritated by that because I had certain expectations for my logo to be correct. And what really got me into WordPress was the fact that it was drag and drop. And I love the word drag and drop, because if you don’t know how to code, well, drag and drop is the alternative, and it’s your best friend. But it’s not a true, genuine, drag and drop experience.
Because to me, drag and drop genuine experience means to put things where I want to put them. I don’t want to be limited by the block builder, you know, the blocks that you’re provided. I want to be able to move it, control it, customise it. Because at the end of the day, people buy into you and not your products and services. But at the same time, your website never gets built because you spend way too much time customising, Googling the 20 best page builders of 2025, and buying a whole bunch of stuff you never needed in the first place, right?
[00:20:45] Nathan Wrigley: So have you doubled down on your page builder of choice and your website building experience is based upon the UI, and becoming an expert and having the perfect muscle memory for doing things in that? Is that how you build your pages, and themes, and structures for web pages now?
[00:21:00] Anthony Jackson: So, ironically enough, Nathan, I’ve actually got away from doing WordPress. I transitioned into something different, which we’re going to get to here in a minute. I learned everything about WordPress. I wanted to learn. The only thing I didn’t learn was WooCommerce. I understand what it is, I just didn’t want to learn it. I didn’t have a need for, my business didn’t sell digital products.
I got out of it because it just became frustrating because I just couldn’t do what I wanted to do, and I didn’t have the budget to pay someone to fix it. I knew if I did, I would probably just cancel anyways because I wanted it to look even better. So I just stopped because I didn’t want to do it. I discovered that I wanted to learn how to actually deploy WordPress for myself instead of using a hosting provider because that’s the easy way.
So one day I was Googling and I came across the word Linux. I was like, Linux, okay, that sounds like a fun rabbit hole. Let’s check it out. I discovered my first cloud computing company, which was Linode. I called them up and, you know, I got to be honest with you, I wasn’t super impressed with them, because the one thing that I realised quickly is that there’s no support at all. It is all community driven. If you think about WordPress, the open source, there’s no support. It’s all just learning community based forums, podcast episodes, wherever you can get content. Thank God WordPress, the audience is so big that you can get help. But to this day, there’s still things that I still want to know the answers to about WordPress, but I just can’t find anymore.
But I discovered Linux and I had a very, very difficult time of spinning up a server. I struggled so badly with the command line, so badly. And then I discovered that Linode had one click apps and one of them was WordPress. I was like, here we go again. I installed WordPress. I grew a little bit of a fascination with trying to find my credentials inside the terminal, realised quickly that shared hosting was not the only option to deploy WordPress.
My biggest problem with the server stuff was there was no support. I struggled very badly. Everything I Googled said, copy this, copy that. I’d copy and paste, I wouldn’t get the result. I was throwing things around, spinning up servers left and right, getting so frustrated. I’m like, what do I need to do?
So I ended up buying a course on Udemy, and went through this very, very great course for absolute beginners and discovered quickly what I was doing wrong. Completely stopped the course and started learning again, because I’m not that type of person who takes the course. I find my fix, and then I go back to like tinkering with things. I spun up, I don’t know, probably 300 little VPSs trying to figure things out. Needless to say, I’m a master of installing WordPress with Linode now.
[00:23:24] Nathan Wrigley: Have you got into Linux server admin, sort of sys admin as a way, well, that was just the fun that you were having at the time, and then discovered that, okay, WordPress can bolt on top of that. And so now the two things have combined and you are back to WordPress, or have you entirely stopped with WordPress?
[00:23:40] Anthony Jackson: I never got into the sys admin stuff, but the next journey for me was, I Googled Linux and I had WordPress. I hated the command line, Nathan. The commands, the black and white was so overwhelming. As it turns out now it’s like my best friend. I can’t live without it because it’s so much easier if you know what you’re doing.
But I discovered something called cPanel, and when I got into cPanel I was like, okay, this is cool. I got a GUI, I can look at something, and lo and behold, guess what I found first? Install WordPress. I’m like, it’s back again, right? Everywhere I turn, WordPress kept coming back.
So I learned how to install cPanel on my own server, trials galore, WordPress. Ended up getting super frustrated with cPanel, because cPanel is extremely technical, if you are not in a shared hosting environment where it’s managed. It’s extremely technical. They started giving me questions, I started asking for commands. I started taking notes of those commands, so when I broke something, I would know what to do.
And I learned cPanel pretty proficiently, but got overwhelmed with it just because the technical. There’s a difference between documentation and technical documentation. Documentation is, click here, do this. Technical documentation is, before you get started, make sure that cPanel’s installed properly on your server. It’s like, okay, first of all, what is cPanel and how do you install it properly? Is there such a thing?
Like it feels so overwhelming and you couldn’t contact Linode, you had no support. The only thing you had was cPanel. So I went through hundreds of cPanel trials trying to figure things out. Grew a fascination with the command line and installing cPanel. And I discovered pretty quickly that, even though I didn’t want to learn WordPress anymore, I wanted to provide hosting for WordPress.
I wanted my own hosting provider. I wanted to be the guy who said, you know what you need, WordPress hosting, I got you. But as it turns out, hosting WordPress on your own server is difficult because you don’t have that system admin background to fix things. Makes it extremely challenging and it, your confidence goes way, way, way down, because you cannot provide that quality of hosting that you want to provide.
So upon Googling more, I discovered something called WHMCS, Web Host Master Complete Solution. Loved this concept. This was a dark rabbit hole. I went down this rabbit hole, and discovered quickly that I would have to install it on my own server, which I lacked knowledge of. Biggest problem was the file manager, figuring out the file structure, how to navigate to the path, trying to figure all that out.
And I finally got that installed and I learned about WHMCS. And through some Googling and YouTube, I hooked up my first server and I click install and it provisioned an instance of WordPress inside of WHMCS. I saw a button that said, log into WordPress. And I was like, oh my God. There’s a button.
And I clicked this button and I was like, oh my God, it just launched WordPress. I was blown away, so I was like, let’s get a business going. So I started writing documentation and yeah, it wasn’t that easy.
[00:26:26] Nathan Wrigley: Boy, I mean, you get the prize for commitment though. I mean, I don’t know if you’ve got just bucket loads of time on your hand, or if you are just the kind of person that, once you’ve set yourself a task, it’s going to annoy you until you finally cross that Rubicon. But you’ve got a lot stickability.
[00:26:42] Anthony Jackson: I’m a determined individual. I went through multiple attempts at WordPress hosting, but I discovered that I was going to need help. I was going to have to find a way to provide this because I didn’t have the system admin background. So I discovered reseller hosting. And this is kind of where things blossomed.
Reseller hosting was great, because they not only provided the WHMCS license free, they provided a cPanel license and I didn’t have to manage it. It was the perfect setup. I was like, oh my God, this is perfect. So I really started to dig into my business then. But then I discovered really quickly that without customers, this is going to be really difficult.
[00:27:14] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that’s the crucial bit that you have to have somebody to resell it to.
[00:27:17] Anthony Jackson: So after three, four months of messing with tech and mastering the art of cPanel, WHM and WHMCS, I stopped because I didn’t have any customers. Why pay 40 bucks a month if you’re not making any money, right? Didn’t make sense. So I was like, well, I need to figure out a different way to provide hosting. I came across something in Linode called Bash. Bash scripting.
I did a little Googling, looked at some images, and I’m like, okay, it’s coded. I’m not a coder. How am I going to do this? And I went back and looked at cPanel, because I had installed it one day and I noticed that the word Bash was in their installation command. And I was like, what the hell is Bash? And what is it doing in this command?
So Google, Google, Google. I discovered some commands, curl, Wget in Linux, all the stuff, and realised that I could pull a file down from the internet and run it as Bash. I was like, this is wicked cool. And I wanted to be able to deploy WordPress, but I wanted to be able to provide it to somebody else so that I didn’t have to deal with the server side. I wanted to be able to give them a script and say, you can download this script, click a button, add your domain, make sure your DNS is set up and you’re golden. And I was like, this is cool.
But then I realised like, I need a way to deploy WordPress because I can’t use Linode because then I’m doing it. I don’t want to help them get to where they need to be because I don’t know how. So how do I offer WordPress hosting in a manner that they can do it in a session that they can understand? So what I ended up doing was I discovered Docker.
[00:28:35] Nathan Wrigley: You have been everywhere.
[00:28:36] Anthony Jackson: I discovered Docker, and I was like, okay, this is overwhelming, right? Docker Hub, command line. I installed my first WordPress image and I saw the welcome screen. So what we know as WordPress, when we log in, we just log in with our credentials and we’re good. This brought me to the actual installation screen of WordPress. Pick your language. And I was like, oh, this is where it really begins, right?
So when I discovered Docker, I found the first image and I launched my first instance of WordPress using Docker, and it was local. And I went to go do everything and it said, error, database not found. I was like, this isn’t good, because I knew that the database was the core, right?
So I learned in Docker how to set up a database with my SQL. And after some serious frustration around coding YAML files, I got with a guy on Fiverr and I said, listen, I said, I need you to make me a script.
I need a Docker install that can install WordPress, have a database, and also be able to get an SSL on the domain, because adding SSLs in Linux is a pain in the butt. I don’t know if you’ve ever been down this road. One of the biggest things about cPanel and the shared hosting is the automatic SSL feature is flipping amazing. It’s one of the things you’ll fall in love with, because your site has to be secure for multiple reasons.
But regardless, he ended up using something called Caddy server. Reverse proxies, all that stuff. He ended up just creating the script. And he goes, just run it. I’m like, how do I run it? I have no idea. He’s like, just make a file, do this. And I put the code in and all of a sudden I hit enter and this thing started running. It started updating packages, and servers, installing Docker, Docker Engine, Docker Compose, running and running and running and running. And I’m just watching it running. My eyes are just lighting up the whole time. I’m like, oh my God, what is doing?
[00:30:14] Nathan Wrigley: It’s like watching the Matrix or something, isn’t it?
[00:30:17] Anthony Jackson: It would pause, it would extract, it would unzip files. I thought it was broke. I restarted like seven times. And all of a sudden it stopped, Nathan, and said, your WordPress instance is ready, go here. And I was like, no way. No way. And I’ll be damned, man. I clicked the link and there it was on my own domain secure, and I was blown away.
I didn’t even log in because I knew it right then and there that I could deploy WordPress and everything would be fine, right? And so I saw this WordPress and I was like, oh my God, I just deployed WordPress in minutes, not hours, on my own server with nearly no technical knowledge.
[00:30:51] Nathan Wrigley: I don’t know, I think you’ve acquired quite a lot of technical knowledge on the way.
[00:30:55] Anthony Jackson: Well, thank God, right? Because running that script was extremely challenging, but I was just, you know that moment when you discover something and you’re clapping and you’re smiling and you’re putting your hands over the air? I was clapping away. That’s where my mind was at. And when I did that, that’s when the business really started, because I wanted to be able to offer WordPress hosting without having to worry about the sys admin stuff. So I figured if I just provided a script.
So now I have a script that’s made in Bash that you just copy and paste a command and the script runs and does what it needs to do. All you need to do is just add your A record for the DNS and your SSL and you’re good to go.
[00:31:28] Nathan Wrigley: So is that, dare I ask, is that where you’re at now? Or is there another sort of, I don’t know, you just sort of, quick, pivot left? Is there something else coming?
[00:31:36] Anthony Jackson: No, there’s more. So Bash is kind of where I stopped. I didn’t really learn Bash, but as you know there’s a lot of drama in the WordPress community, and it seems to shine on X. And I made a decision that it’s going to be really hard to market because of all the competition with WordPress. And I kind of stopped.
And so the business now, this is where I’m at, I’m creating Bash scripts for popular open source applications. Because if there’s one thing that I’ve learned through my journey with WordPress and learning servers and Linux, it’s that the open source community is so powerful. Your privacy, your focus, your respect, your content, your everything is so important. So I’m actually creating Bash scripts that automate the process of those popular open source applications like WordPress, Plausible Analytics, Nextcloud, all those popular ones.
I’m in the process of making scripts for all those, and it makes the process easy because when I first started deploying open source applications, my biggest challenge was the documentation. Trying to understand it, trying to read it, trying to make sense of it. And when I saw that WordPress script run, man, I was like, oh my God, I can make anything run, and now I’ve got five scripts.
[00:32:46] Nathan Wrigley: And so is that going to be the business in the future there? Where you come along and you, I don’t know, you want Moodle or something, or you want Joomla or WordPress or whatever it may be, and you’ve got a script which you basically just put it on your server, run it, find the path to it, run it, and you’re off to the races.
That’s an interesting business model and not one, well, I mean, obviously, that business model is encapsulated in many, many, many hosting companies and hosting solutions like cPanel and what have you, but yours is going to be just, buy the script, off me, run the script, and then you’re on your own.
[00:33:16] Anthony Jackson: Because the biggest issue that I’m finding with people, it’s not so much the command line, it’s tying the SSL into it. And a lot of people are hosting these open source applications locally, but there’s a problem with that. There’s a big problem. We talked about at the very beginning of this podcast episode, it’s not on the internet. It’s local to your computer, nobody can see it.
What Caddy does is creates that reverse proxy and puts it on your own domain so that the world can see it. It solves a big problem. Because Linux is so big, you not only have to learn the operating system. You not only have to learn the command line. You’ve got to learn the commands itself. You’ve got to have serious patience. You’ve got to be able to do a lot of things to get to where you need to be with Linux to be comfortable.
These scripts make it super easy. Literally, like you point your A record, you let it propagate, you press a button and it goes. And I went as so far to this, this is really cool, I had someone else create a script that secures your server as well. So when you run this WordPress script it disables root login, it does all the security best practices, uses public key authentication, the whole nine yards. Then it installs Docker, Docker Compose, Docker Engine, runs the file, runs Caddy, installs WordPress, and you have a secure server set up in 10 minutes with your own WordPress instance on the internet ready to go.
[00:34:27] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I remember the famous five minute install for WordPress, but this is more like five minute install for all the stack. Click the button, go off, make yourself a coffee, and by the time you’ve come back everything is done. That’s so interesting.
[00:34:40] Anthony Jackson: There’s a couple of manual processes because of the way the script is built. But if you have a technical background, you’re good to go. And one of the reasons I did this, Nathan, was because I realised there was no support as we discussed, right? Well, I didn’t know everything about Linux. There’s no way I could be a system admin, no way in hell.
So I wanted to make a way to where I could give it to someone and say, hey, here it is. Heads up, we’re not responsible. This is your server. You break it, you fix it. I’m here to give you the script, I’m here to troubleshoot why it’s not working and that’s it.
[00:35:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, you’re just the beginning. You are the first step on the journey, and then it’s hands off from your perspective, and then it’s over to you. I’ve got it.
[00:35:17] Anthony Jackson: The scripts are all one-time fees. So you own it, do whatever you want with it. Remodify it, I don’t care. Make it better, improve it.
[00:35:22] Nathan Wrigley: Where do you sell them then? How has that as a business idea gone down? Have you managed to find customers for that?
[00:35:28] Anthony Jackson: I have not found customers yet. That’s part of the reason I’m on here, to help get exposure. I’m still trying to kind of validate the business idea. Anybody that knows anything about Bash scripts knows that they’re not sold. They’re free. I’ve put a lot of money into having these things created for me, so I want to get a little bit of return on them.
And they’re not, I mean, the WordPress one is 27. It’s nothing crazy. You can deploy WordPress as many times as you want, SSLs, et cetera. It’s a slow process. I’m very much, my business in a phase where I’m building my audience. I’m trying to find out who that audience is, what their pain points are, what their problems are. And things will probably progress from there. So right now my biggest challenge is just trying not to learn anything else because I’ve learnt so much.
[00:36:11] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it would seem that your history is littered with, well, not dead ends, but kind of temporary dead ends where it leads you to the next thing, and it leads you to the next thing. But actually the thread running through your story that I’m picking up is that each time you drop a piece of technology and move on to another one, it’s kind of elevating you towards something a bit more difficult.
The technologies that we’re using at the beginning, the next one was a little bit more difficult to manage, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one. And it was that inexorable kind of rise to now where you are doing the full nine yards in this one script. That’s really interesting. What a fascinating story.
I tell you what, you have more patience than I have. And I don’t know how many times you’ve thrown things at walls, but I suspect if it was me, it would’ve been quite a few. When those moments of clarity that I don’t really know what’s going on here, but I’m going to persevere. Remarkable.
We kind of hit the sweet spot in terms of time. So we’ll sort of wrap it up. What a fascinating journey. I love that story. Tell me, Anthony, where would people find what it is that you are mentioning here, these Bash scripts? Where would we find those? And then another question, very much the same really is, where would we find you? Where do you hang out online, and where could people discover you?
[00:37:19] Anthony Jackson: So my primary home is x.com. I really like X. You can visit my bio, there is a link to the website. Please note the website is being updated from what it is to something else. I was going to do the whole WordPress thing, but things changed a little bit. So I’ll leave you a link, Nathan, with a link to the shop and you can take a look at the scripts and decide if you want to purchase one. If you do, just know that I truly appreciate your support. Running a small business is extremely challenging on a very tight budget.
I really feel that this is something that can help a lot of people get where they need to be because there’s a lot of digital scams in the world. And the one script that I love that I have is the Nextcloud script. And I love the fact that I can store my data securely and not have to worry about privacy and my data being sold. So if you’re looking for an alternative to keep your stuff safe, definitely a robust option.
So I’ll send you a link, Nathan, to the scripts. I’m still in the middle of updating links and things like that. I’m just excited to finally have it off the ground and finally have a business after learning nine different technologies in a matter of two years.
[00:38:17] Nathan Wrigley: It sounds like a lot. So what I’ll say is, when Anthony sends me the link, I will embed it into the show notes. So if you head to wptavern.com/podcast, if you search for Anthony Jackson, then you’ll be able to find that episode and I will make sure that all of the links that he sends me finally end up on the show notes over there.
What a fantastic and interesting story. Anthony Jackson, I really hope that your endeavor, all of that hard work pays off. Good luck for the future. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today.
[00:38:46] Anthony Jackson: It was great to meet you, Nathan. Thank you everyone for listening. I hope you enjoyed this story. I hope that it inspires somebody. Technology is an amazing thing. Remember, never fear it, always, always embrace it. It can take you places you’ve never imagined.
On the podcast today we have Anthony Jackson.
Anthony is a true technophile whose journey has been shaped by a constant pursuit of understanding new technologies. From a young age, Anthony’s curiosity about technology laid the foundation for a lifetime of exploration. Starting from modest beginnings in computer repair, he steadily transitioned into the world of WordPress, and the complexities of server management.
This episode really is a story, the story of trying new things, being creative and always following curiosity, wherever it may lead.
Anthony talks about his early experiences, describing the moment computers first sparked his interest, and the subsequent path he charted in the technology space. Despite hurdles and frustrations, particularly with initial web development and WordPress hosting, his story is a testament to determination and resilience. As you’ll hear Anthony learned the ropes of many technologies, from grappling with CSS for website customisation, to exploring cloud computing and the command line in Linux.
His journey took a big turn when he discovered automated Bash scripts that facilitate the deployment of open-source applications like WordPress. This is what Anthony is doing right now, but you’re going to hear many stories of different pathways that led to this situation.
Throughout the episode, Anthony sheds light on his philosophy of embracing technology. He speaks about the numerous technologies he’s explored, the trials he faced along the way, and the value of cultivating his technical skills. With his Bash scripts ready to streamline server setups and deployments, Anthony envisions a future where technology is not just a tool, but a powerful ally for businesses and personal projects alike.
If you’re keen to hear some inspirational stories about overcoming tech challenges, resilience and learning, this episode is for you.
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