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Sensata (ST) Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

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DATE

Tuesday, July 29, 2025 at 12:00 a.m. ET

CALL PARTICIPANTS

Chief Executive Officer — Stephan Von Schuckmann

Chief Financial Officer — Andrew Charles Lynch

Senior Director of Investor Relations — James Entwistle

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RISKS

Performance Sensing revenue declined approximately 10% year over year, with continued softness in on-road truck production across North America and Europe expected to persist.

Adjusted earnings per share decreased by $0.05 year over year due to divestitures.

Heavy vehicle and off-road production declined more than 20% in the first half of 2025 across North America and Europe, with expectations for continued market weakness in the second half.

TAKEAWAYS

Total Revenue: $943 million, down from $1.036 billion year over year, primarily due to divestitures, but up $32 million sequentially from the first quarter.

Adjusted Operating Income: $179 million, with a 19.0% margin, representing a 70 basis-point sequential margin improvement from the first quarter.

Adjusted Earnings Per Share: $0.87, up $0.09 sequentially, but down $0.05 year over year due to divestitures.

Free Cash Flow: $116 million, representing a 91% conversion rate of adjusted net income and a 17% increase year over year.

Net Leverage: 3.0 times trailing twelve-month adjusted EBITDA, down from 3.1 times at the end of the previous quarter.

Share Repurchases: $20 million executed in the quarter; $18 million dividend paid to shareholders.

Performance Sensing Revenue: $652 million, down 10% year over year, with margin expansion of 20 basis points, inclusive of tariff impact.

Sensing Solutions Revenue: $291 million, up 9% year over year, with margin expansion of 50 basis points.

Capital Return: ROI of 10.1%, up 30 basis points year over year.

Tariff Impact: $12 million in both tariff costs and offsetting pass-through revenues, resulting in a 20 basis-point adjusted operating margin dilution.

Cash Accumulation: $74 million in incremental cash added to the balance sheet during the quarter.

Guidance for Next Quarter: Revenue expected between $900 million and $930 million; adjusted operating margins projected at 19.0%-19.2%; adjusted EPS expected at $0.81-$0.87.

Sensing Solutions Industrial Growth: High single-digit outgrowth, attributed to gas leak detection business ramp.

Sensing Solutions Aerospace Growth: Revenue growth of more than 5%, outpacing roughly 3% market growth.

Operational Initiatives: Cash conversion rate improved to 91% from 74% last quarter as a result of working capital optimization.

SUMMARY

Sensata Technologies Holding plc(NYSE:ST) achieved a record 91% free cash flow conversion of adjusted net income, with sequential and year-over-year improvement. Management emphasized ongoing deleveraging, capital deployment for shareholder returns, and maintaining adjusted operating margins at or above 19%. Sensing Solutions growth, driven by new industrial and aerospace content, partially offset Performance Sensing declines linked to heavy vehicle and off-road market weakness. Additional margin expansion is targeted through operational productivity, inventory benchmarking, and cost containment. CEO Von Schuckmann noted, "Over 90% of year-to-date new business wins are with the top five local OEMs and leading new energy vehicle players" in China. The previously announced cybersecurity-related disruptions were fully recovered without material financial or customer impact. Company guidance for the next quarter assumes $15 million in tariff costs, up from $12 million, but projects continued margin expansion and dividend continuity.

Chief Executive Officer Von Schuckmann said, "We have significantly increased our pace of new business wins in China, primarily on NEVs."

Chief Financial Officer Lynch said, "In the short term, we'll look to reduce net leverage by accumulating cash on the balance sheet," with a target to move below 3.0 times and toward 2.5 times.

Management confirmed both segment adjusted operating margins—Sensing Solutions at 30.2%, Performance Sensing at 22.5%—expanded year over year despite tariff pass-throughs.

The gas leak detection business is expected to reach approximately $70 million in revenue in 2025, with a goal of exceeding $100 million in 2026, and is now operating at normalized industrial margins.

Company benchmarking, both internally and externally, is driving operational and inventory management improvements.

Regional market updates indicate persistent weakness in North America and Europe for on-road trucks, while China auto provides outgrowth opportunities as newly won programs launch.

CapEx is expected to normalize at around 4% of revenue, up from the quarter's lower level, but management does not anticipate material headwinds to free cash flow conversion from this shift.

INDUSTRY GLOSSARY

HVOR: Heavy Vehicle and Off-Road; Sensata's segment serving truck, agricultural, and construction equipment manufacturers.

NEV: New Energy Vehicle; electric and hybrid vehicles, a focus for growth in China's automotive sector.

TPMS: Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems; sensor-based product line cited as key to recent technological wins in China.

DS rates: Duty structure or tariff rates, usually in the context of trade between the United States and China.

A2L / A3 / HOL: Specialist classifications for refrigerants and associated leak detection sensors, especially for regulatory-driven industrial markets.

Full Conference Call Transcript

James Entwistle: Thank you, Jamie, and good afternoon, everyone. I'm James Entwistle, Senior Director of Investor Relations for Sensata Technologies Holding plc, and I would like to welcome you to Sensata's second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Joining me on today's call are Stephan Von Schuckmann, Sensata's Chief Executive Officer, and Andrew Charles Lynch, Sensata's Chief Financial Officer. In addition to the financial results press release we issued earlier today, we will be referencing a slide presentation during today's conference call. The PDF of this presentation can be downloaded from Sensata's Investor Relations website. This conference call is being recorded, and we will post a replay on our Investor Relations website shortly after the conclusion of today's call.

As we begin, I would like to reference Sensata's Safe Harbor statement on slide two. During this conference call, we will make forward-looking statements regarding future events or the future financial performance of the company that involve certain risks and uncertainties. The company's actual results may differ materially from the projections described in such statements. Factors that might cause such differences include, but are not limited to, those discussed in our forms 10-Q and 10-K, as well as other filings with the SEC. We encourage you to review our GAAP financial statements in addition to today's. Much of the information that we will discuss during today's call will relate to non-GAAP financial measures.

Our GAAP and non-GAAP financials, including reconciliations, are included in our earnings release, in the appendices of our presentation materials, and in our SEC filings. Stephan will begin the call today with comments on the overall business. Andrew will cover our detailed results for the second quarter of 2025 and our financial outlook for the third quarter of 2025. Stephan will then return for closing remarks. We will then take your questions. Now I would like to turn the call over to Sensata's Chief Executive Officer, Stephan Von Schuckmann.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Thank you, James, and good afternoon, everyone. Before I begin discussing our results for the second quarter, I'd like to take a moment to congratulate Andrew Charles Lynch, who was named our Chief Financial Officer last week. Andrew has been a valuable partner to me since I joined Sensata Technologies Holding plc, and the board and I have full confidence in him. Andrew's extensive financial and operational experience at Sensata has prepared him well for this role. I'm excited to have him as a partner on Sensata's transformation journey. Now let's begin on slide three.

We delivered a strong quarter of 2025 revenue, adjusted operating income, and adjusted earnings per share, all exceeding the high end of our guidance for the second consecutive quarter. This is an important proof point for the resilience of our business and our team's determination to execute in the face of challenges such as volatile end markets, geopolitical uncertainty, and the cybersecurity incident that we disclosed in April. When I first spoke to you in February, I introduced three key pillars which would serve as my initial focal points for shareholder value creation: improving operational performance, optimizing capital allocation, and returning to growth.

In our May call, I provided an update on some of the specific work we are doing on each of these pillars, and much of the focus of that update was operational excellence. Today, I'll go a bit deeper on capital allocation and growth drivers. Before we get to capital allocation and growth, I'll share a brief update on operational excellence. We rolled out a number of initiatives over the last six months, and I'm pleased with our recent accomplishments on this journey. Our cash conversion rate in the second quarter was 91%, a significant step up from our first quarter 2025 conversion rate of 74%. This improvement reflects our focus on unlocking cash to execute our capital allocation strategy.

With operational excellence initiatives, we're optimizing our working capital and creating margin resilience in our business, enabling us to deliver on our earnings commitments. Now I'd like to go deeper on our next pillar, optimizing our capital allocation. Simply put, we will deploy capital in a manner designed to maximize shareholder returns. In the first quarter, we seized the opportunity to repurchase $100 million of shares. In the second quarter, we repurchased another $20 million of shares and funded our dividend while also accumulating an additional $74 million of incremental cash.

In turn, we reduced our net leverage ratio from 3.1 times trailing twelve-month adjusted EBITDA at the end of the first quarter to 3.0 times at the end of the second quarter. This further strengthened our already strong balance sheet. In the past, you've heard me talk a lot about benchmarking as we look to drive operational excellence. We are using extensive external benchmarks for each of our key pillars. As we look at comparable companies across the market, our differentiated margin stands out, and our cash conversion is improving. However, our capital structure and net leverage is a bit of an outlier.

For the balance of this year and into 2026, you can expect us to continue to prioritize deleveraging. Now I'm excited to share our progress on our growth pillar. Just like capital allocation, growth is enabled by operational excellence. Over my decades of experience in the industry, I have learned that the right to win is earned by consistently serving customers on time, at the lowest possible cost, with high-quality products. Operational initiatives will ensure that we do exactly that. It's equally important that we're disciplined about the new business we pursue. We need to win with the right technologies, the right platforms, and the right customers.

Over the last several months, I have worked with the Sensata team to study our past business wins a bit deeper and to identify the characteristics of our most successful programs. By using those learnings to be more selective about how and where we invest and what business opportunities we pursue, for us, it means the following: First, stick to our core product technologies: pressure, temperature, electrical protection, and certain specialty sensing such as force, position, flow, and leak. Next, prioritize platform-driven applications where high switching costs favor incumbency, with an emphasis on regulated or mission-critical sockets. And finally, focus on the right end markets that expose us to key secular tailwinds and appropriate diversification.

As we apply these criteria, our priorities become clear. In our Sensing Solutions segment, HL Gear gas leak detection is a recent example of a business opportunity that checked all the boxes for us. We were able to leverage our core sensing capabilities to win a regulated sensor socket on air conditioning system platforms. We established a market leadership position in the US, which we are continuing to grow. In 2025, this business is on track to deliver approximately $70 million of revenue, and we continue to increase our market share with the goal of well over $100 million of revenue next year.

We look forward to leveraging our incumbency with key OEMs to win globally with similar regulatory requirements on the horizon in both Europe and Asia. In our Performance Sensing segment, we've spoken a lot about the content opportunities on both ICE and EV platforms, as well as the rapidly evolving new energy vehicle or NEV market in China. It is clear that we need to win in China to maintain and grow our global market share. The China market is opportunity-rich with the rapid adoption of NEVs and the growth of local OEMs. The high-voltage applications on NEVs offer incremental content opportunities for us compared to the traditional ICE business.

Our China team is actively driving business development with local OEMs in China to support their growth ambitions both in China and beyond. We have significantly increased our pace of new business wins in China, primarily on NEVs. Our customers are placing value on our product performance, proven field quality in the local market, cost competitiveness, and well-established production scale. More than 90% of these wins are with top local OEMs and leading NEV players. Due to shorter design cycles in the China market, we expect many of these business wins to materialize into revenue later this year and serve as the foundation for a return to more consistent market outgrowth in 2026.

The content wins we are securing include NEV-specific electrical protection, as well as powertrain-agnostic content such as tire pressure monitoring systems or TPMS. One of these recent TPMS wins featured new tire burst detection technology, and we are excited to share that we were the first to bring this technology to market for an active safety application. Tire burst detection enables the vehicle to activate its stability control features at the first sign of a tire rupture event, dramatically improving occupant safety. This is exactly the type of technological differentiation that gives us an edge in the market.

Now that we've spoken about our key pillars, I'd like to talk a little bit more about what we are seeing in our end markets today. Let's turn to slide four. I'll start with tariff and trade policy. Through a combination of reimbursement agreements with our customers and modifications to our supply chain, we have now successfully mitigated all of our tariff costs in the second quarter, compared to approximately 95% when we spoke to you in May. Since our last update, we've also seen a reduction in our exposures in connection with the DS rates between the United States and China.

Additionally, we're pleased to report that we have not seen significant impacts from recent tariff escalations on commodities or from export controls on rare earth materials. More broadly, in our end markets, we're seeing a mix of volatility, resilience, and growth. I'll share a few highlights now, and then Andrew will provide more specifics as he walks you through our results and guidance. On the performance sensing side, we are pleased with automotive production holding up stronger than initially expected with trade tensions escalated. Global production has grown in the first half as the market in China has been very strong.

HVOR markets have been soft, particularly with on-road trucks, and we're starting to see off-road production slow down as well. As a result, we're managing our costs accordingly. In our Sensing Solutions segment, we're seeing more growth, which highlights the advantages of our end market diversification. Our industrials business grew over 9% in the second quarter as markets have stabilized, and our new leak detection product is delivering meaningful outgrowth. In aerospace, we saw over 5% revenue growth in the second quarter, against a market that grew roughly 3%. Our market outlook for both industrial and aerospace in the second half is largely consistent with what we saw in the second quarter.

In summary, I'm happy with what we have achieved so far this year, and our Q2 results demonstrate the progress we are making on our transformation plan built upon three pillars. As we progress through the balance of 2025 and into the new year, we'll maintain our focus and rigor on these initiatives to drive shareholder value. With that, I'll turn the call over to Andrew to provide greater detail on Q2 financial results and our guidance for the third quarter.

Andrew Charles Lynch: Thank you, Stephan, and good afternoon, everyone. I want to begin today by extending my gratitude to Stephan and our board of directors for placing their confidence in me as Sensata's Chief Financial Officer. I would also like to thank the Sensata team and our finance organization for their support over the last several months. Let me start on slide six. We delivered another strong quarter in Q2 with results above our expectations across all of our key metrics. We reported revenue of approximately $943 million for the second quarter of 2025, as compared to revenue of $1.036 billion in the second quarter of 2024.

While revenues were lower year over year primarily due to the previously discussed divestitures, we saw $32 million of top-line growth sequentially from the first quarter of 2025 and exceeded the top end of our guidance range, reflecting our rapid recovery from the cybersecurity incident in April and general resilience in our end markets. Adjusted operating income was approximately $179 million, or a margin of 19.0%, and included approximately $12 million of zero-margin pass-through revenues related to tariff recovery, which were 20 basis points dilutive to our adjusted operating margins. Adjusted operating margins improved 70 basis points sequentially from 18.3% in the first quarter of 2025.

Adjusted operating margins were consistent with the prior year quarter at 19% and increased 20 basis points year over year, excluding the dilutive impact of tariff pass-throughs. Adjusted earnings per share of $0.87 in the second quarter of 2025 represent an increase of $0.09 sequentially from the first quarter of 2025, as we delivered on our margin expansion plans, and a decrease of $0.05 as compared to the second quarter of 2024 due to divestitures. We achieved robust free cash flow of $116 million in the second quarter, an increase of 17% year over year.

This represents a conversion rate of 91% of adjusted net income, an increase of 17 percentage points compared to the first quarter of 2025 and 20 percentage points compared to the second quarter of 2024. As Stephan mentioned, free cash flow is a key focus for us, and our improvements accelerate our ability to execute our capital allocation strategy. Now let's turn to slide seven, and I will discuss capital deployment. In the second quarter, we executed share repurchases totaling $20 million and returned $18 million to shareholders through our regular quarterly dividend. We reduced our net leverage to 3.0 times trailing twelve-month adjusted EBITDA compared to 3.1 times at the end of March.

With our capital allocation strategy, we delivered ROI of 10.1%, up 30 basis points compared to the second quarter of 2024. Looking ahead, you can expect us to continue to deploy capital in a manner designed to maximize shareholder returns, with an emphasis on deleveraging in the near term. Turning to slide eight, I'll talk through the results for our segments as well as provide more color on what we are seeing in our end markets. Let's start with the segment results. Performance Sensing revenue in the second quarter of 2025 was approximately $652 million, a decrease of approximately 10% year over year, primarily due to product divestitures and lower on-road truck production in North America and Europe.

Performance Sensing adjusted operating income was approximately $147 million, or 22.5% of Performance Sensing revenue, representing year-over-year margin expansion of 20 basis points inclusive of any dilutive impact from tariffs. Sensing Solutions revenue in the second quarter of 2025 was approximately $291 million, an increase of approximately 9% year over year. This marks our second straight quarter of year-over-year growth, driven by new content in our industrials business and market outgrowth in our aerospace business. Sensing Solutions adjusted operating income was approximately $88 million, or 30.2% of Sensing Solutions revenue, representing year-over-year margin expansion of 50 basis points, again inclusive of any dilutive impact from tariffs.

As a reminder, corporate and other costs have been recast to exclude certain costs previously referred to as megatrend spend, which are now presented within the two reporting segments. Corporate and other adjusted operating expenses were up $4 million versus the second quarter of 2024, primarily driven by higher variable compensation due to better underlying performance. Now I'll provide color on what we are seeing in our end markets. In our automotive business, production estimates have been volatile, and trade policy has evolved throughout the year. We have seen double-digit market growth in China in the first half, partially offset by market weakness in North America and Europe.

Looking ahead to Q3, we see auto production moderating to roughly flat year over year and down about one million vehicle units sequentially from the second quarter on typical seasonality. In our heavy vehicle and off-road business, we have seen softness throughout the year, with on-road truck production down more than 20% in the first half across North America and Europe. We expect this softness to persist in the second half of the year. Global off-road markets have seen modest growth in the first half, but we are now experiencing a significant slowdown in Q3. In our Sensing Solutions segment, we are seeing market strength.

Both industrials and aerospace are seeing low single-digit market growth, and we are seeing high single-digit outgrowth in industrial as our gas leak detection business has ramped nicely. The market outlook I just discussed is reflected in our guidance, which I will take you through in a moment. Looking a bit further ahead to Q4, we are monitoring third-party forecasts and customer demand signals, and we expect more clarity as trade policy develops in the days and weeks ahead. Lastly, before we get to our guidance, I'd like to give just a brief update on tariffs. Let's turn to slide nine.

When we guided the second quarter, we estimated that we would incur $20 million of tariff costs, which we expected to fully recover on a dollar basis based on reimbursement agreements we were able to secure in partnership with our customers. At this level of cost and pass-through revenue, we expected 40 basis points of adjusted operating margin dilution. Subsequent to our second quarter guide, we saw a de-escalation of tariff rates between the United States and China. Additionally, we continue to work on our supply chain to manage our exposures. The net result of this was that we incurred approximately $12 million of tariff costs in the quarter and recorded $12 million of pass-through revenues.

Accordingly, tariff pass-throughs were approximately 20 basis points dilutive to our adjusted operating margin. With that, let's turn to slide ten, and I will walk through our expectations for the third quarter of 2025. We expect third-quarter revenue of $900 million to $930 million, adjusted operating income of $171 million to $179 million, adjusted operating margins of 19.0% to 19.2%, and adjusted earnings per share of $0.81 to $0.87. At the midpoint of our guidance range, we see approximately 10 basis points of sequential margin expansion. However, we have assumed $15 million of tariff costs and associated pass-through revenues in our third-quarter guide, slightly higher than the $12 million we reported in the second quarter due to business mix.

On a pre-tariff basis, we expect approximately 20 basis points of sequential adjusted operating margin expansion compared to the second quarter, in line with the margin expansion targets we talked about last quarter. As noted in our press release and earnings materials, our guidance and tariff assumptions are based on trade policies and tariff rates in effect as of July 28. Earlier this month, we announced our third-quarter dividend of $0.12 per share, payable on August 27 to shareholders of record as of August 13. Finally, before I turn the call back to Stephan, just a brief update on the cybersecurity incident that we disclosed in April.

In connection with this incident, we experienced approximately a two-week disruption in our business. Thanks to our team's preparation and resiliency, our business has fully recovered. We are grateful to have this incident behind us without any significant disruption to our customers and without material financial impact. With that, I will now turn the call back to Stephan.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Thank you, Andrew. I said this last quarter, but it warrants repeating. There is a significant transformation underway at Sensata Technologies Holding plc. The foundation of this transformation is the key pillars that I've discussed on each of our earnings calls since I joined Sensata at the beginning of the year. I would like to conclude today's remarks by sharing a bit more about why these are key to our vision and what you can continue to expect from us. Operational excellence is about stabilizing our core business to serve as an enabler to both our capital allocation and growth pillars.

Our capital allocation strategy is to utilize our cash flow improvements to deploy capital in a manner designed to create shareholder value in the short term and long term, with an emphasis on deleveraging. And finally, our return to growth will be supported by a focused product strategy and a clear evaluation criteria for growth opportunities. Success on our key pillars will be apparent in phases. Today, consistent execution with adjusted operating margins at or above 19% and free cash flow conversion at or above 80%. In the next several quarters, net leverage continues to improve. And in the years ahead, a return to more consistent growth.

I'm excited about what the future holds, and I look forward to continuing to update you on our progress moving forward. I will now turn the call back to James for Q&A.

James Entwistle: Thank you, Stephan and Andrew. We will now move to Q&A. Jamie, please introduce the first question.

Operator: We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star and then one on your touch-tone phones. If you are using a speakerphone, we do ask that you please pick up the handset prior to pressing the keys to ensure the best sound quality. To withdraw your questions, you may press star and two. Our first question today comes from Mark Delaney from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead with your question.

Mark Delaney: Yes. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I see the free cash flow conversion pickup. And Andrew, congratulations on the expanded role. I wanted to start with EBIT margins. They expanded 20 bps year over year excluding tariffs even as organic revenue was down, I think, about 2%. And you expect sequential margin improvement again in Q3. Can you go into more detail on what's driving that margin improvement both in Q2 and Q3? And I guess as you look longer term, do you see a path to 20% plus EBIT margins?

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Look, Mark. Nice to hear. Thanks for the question. So first of all, as mentioned in the call, we're undergoing quite a significant transformation at Sensata Technologies Holding plc. And we've basically designed a number of initiatives that we're focusing on. So we didn't start a huge amount of initiatives. It's basically six initiatives that we're focusing on. And just to mention a few, some of these initiatives are focused on pure operational excellence, something I've been speaking about frequently now in the calls in the past. So that's improving plant performance. And what we're doing is we're benchmarking our plants against each other where we have so-called similar products.

So for example, in TPMS, we try to improve the plants that are weaker than the best benchmark within Sensata. As one example. Another example is we're working on commercial excellence. So we have a much stronger rigor on that. And like I said, there are other examples. So we're working, for example, on improving our procurement and gaining effect from that. And that's basically the effect that you see with other initiatives. That you could see the margin improvement. But for more details, let me pass on to Andrew.

Andrew Charles Lynch: Thanks, Stephan. Mark, I think to summarize, it's primarily operational productivity that's driving the sequential margin expansion. And we feel pretty good about our margin levels in the 19% range in the near term here. In terms of longer-term margin expansion opportunity, we've not established any targets at this time. We're really focused on short-term and margin resilience. We'll provide more clarity on what the longer-term outlook looks like as we get into the 2026 guide period. But for now, we're focused on just margin resilience at the current level and sequential margin expansion quarter on quarter.

Mark Delaney: That's helpful. My follow-up is also around EBIT margins and how mix may or may not affect that. You talked about diverging trends you're seeing in some of these end markets, industrial picking up. You said HVOR seeing signs of weakness. And if you see those sorts of divergent trends by end markets, what might that mean, if anything, for EBIT margins? Is that a potential headwind or tailwind from mix that investors should potentially expect? Thanks.

Andrew Charles Lynch: Yeah. Good question, Mark. So mix definitely matters in our business. I think as we've highlighted before, our lowest margin business is our automotive business. Our highest margin is our aerospace business. HVOR and industrial are kind of in between. As we look at what we're seeing in the current quarter and Q3, we've seen softness in the HVOR business and strength in industrial. And so we base that any mix headwind from the HVOR softness with the outgrowth that we're driving in industrial. And we feel good that the business mix kind of moving forward throughout the balance of the year will support the margin expansion that we've committed to.

Mark Delaney: Thank you.

Operator: Our next question comes from Joe Giordano from TD Cowen. Please go ahead with your question.

Joe Giordano: Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. Have you, Stephan, as you've kind of gone through the portfolio now for a little bit longer, where do you think you stand on more product rationalization, SKU reduction that you need to do, scrubbing of backlog that you'd won kind of a long time ago that's been pushed out? Like, where do you think you stand on those things?

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Alright. Can you just repeat the question and get it lost?

Joe Giordano: So I'm just curious on where you stand as you evaluate the portfolio now that you've been here a little while. Like, how much more SKU reduction is necessary or small divestments and things like scrubbing of the backlog to see how realistic delivery is on things that were won, you know, maybe a long time ago and when markets were different.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Well, look, I think a lot of the SKU reduction or let's call it portfolio cleansing has been done in the last year. There's been significant work done by the team and around the interim CEO, COO Martha Sullivan. Look, it's a continuous process. So I'm looking at all types of SKUs, be it in automotive, be it in HVOR, but also industrial. And anything that we don't feel that doesn't fit our portfolio at this point in time, we will cleanse of our overall SKUs. It's a continuous process. It's not something that is finished after we've gone through all of them. It's something that we follow through month for month, actually.

Nothing significant at this point in time, but something I'll keep a focus on.

Joe Giordano: And on the backlog, like, the recoverability of stuff that you won a while ago.

Andrew Charles Lynch: Yeah. I think you're probably referring to some of the EV wins and program wins from years back. I mean, as the market shifts on that, we work with our customers to make sure that we're securing offsets, whether it's new opportunity to quote on new business, whether it's commercial recovery, pricing discussions. So we factor all that in as we negotiate with our customers moving forward. But I think the driver there is pretty clear. It's that the time horizon of certain EV programs has moved to the right. And we're just focused on supporting the market as it is today.

Joe Giordano: Thank you. And then the follow-up, I know it's still early, but just any incremental, Stephan, you can give us on the China positioning? I know this is a big priority of yours to evolve how Sensata was positioned in China, with the local OEMs. So maybe any updates there? Thank you.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Yes. Yes. Of course, I can. So look, I think generally, we need to say there's been quite an extreme shift from multinational to local OEMs. We see that the market is roughly at 70% local now, and see that government incentives have benefited 2024. And they basically continue to drive 2025. On the other hand, it's still encouraging, obviously, to see that multinational OEMs are continuing to make meaningful investments in China. So what does that mean for Sensata? I would say it's a return to outgrowth. So 90% of all the business of the year-to-date new business wins are basically with the top five local OEMs. And with leading so-called new energy vehicle players.

And around that, if I break that down to more products, the high concentration on high voltage and powertrain agnostic content. So we basically expect modest outgrowth in the back half based on third-party forecasted production mix, and we are also pretty confident that it's going to be more consistent outgrowth in the beginning of 2026.

Operator: Our next question comes from Wamsi Mohan from Bank of America. Please go ahead with your question.

Ashley: Hi. This is Ashley on the call for Wamsi. Just one question for me. We were wondering if you saw any pull forward of demand that impacted the Q2 time period, specifically in autos, just any color you could give us here? Thanks.

Andrew Charles Lynch: Sure. Happy to answer that. So the short answer is no. I think there are a few dynamics at play here. So in the second quarter, the early part of the quarter, the supply chain was coming up the curb on USMCA compliance, particularly in April. And so I think what we saw there was the OEMs consuming inventory earlier in the quarter and then replenishing it in the back half of the quarter. But effectively, Q2 was basically normal. And then looking ahead to the third quarter, our order book's pretty solid and filled to where we would expect it to be relevant to where we guided the quarter.

And certainly, as we talk to our channel partners on the industrial business and other end markets, we're not seeing any pull ahead in our business. I mean, that may be more of a dynamic further down the supply chain, but where we sit, it's pretty much business as usual in terms of order book correlation to production.

Ashley: Alright. Thank you. I'll pass it back.

Operator: Our next question comes from Kosta Tasoulis from Please go ahead with your question.

Kosta Tasoulis: Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. Andrew, congratulations. My first question is for you. So, you know, you've been at Sensata, I think, for a majority of all your professional career. You've been there a while. You've probably seen a lot of the maybe archaic processes that have been in place as you've moved up the ranks. But now you're literally a chief decision maker. So I just want to see, like, what are the things you're looking to improve within Sensata?

Andrew Charles Lynch: Thanks, Kosta, and thanks for the question. You know, my primary focus here is on enabling the transformation that Stephan has outlined here in his key pillars. I think we've got the right priorities to drive performance. There's a lot of work behind the scenes that goes into enabling these key pillars. As Stephan mentioned, there's a bunch of initiatives that underpin the operational excellence pillar. And a lot of that comes down to making sure that we've got the right analytics and the right data to drive the right decision-making. So that's part of the role of the finance org from a tactical standpoint, and so certainly focused on enabling that.

And then the other piece around capital allocation and growth, ensuring that we're applying the right rigor to our growth investments and ensuring that we're allocating capital in a way that creates shareholder returns. So I think that just reiterates the pillars that Stephan has outlined, and I'm fully on board with enabling those.

Kosta Tasoulis: Great. I'll just dig in on free cash flow a little bit. How should we think about these cost optimization efforts impacting your inventories? Right? So it sounds like part of the strategy is standardization. Right? So are you bringing in a single component across your products that would reduce cost and variability? And, you know, definitely got to keep a high stock of that component, and that kind of reduces the working capital tailwind.

Andrew Charles Lynch: I think as we think about inventory, it's two levers. So certainly, focusing on productivity and working unit cost reduction to drive inventory costs down and drive product costs down ultimately frees up more working capital. The other piece is just the amount of inventory that we carry. And one of the things we talked about on past calls about a potential driver for that is better integration of our supply chain planning and demand planning. And making sure that we're using our systems and the data that's available in the end market to optimize our lead times, optimize our demand signal, and optimize our production planning. All of that culminates in an inventory reduction opportunity.

And that's a lever to continue to drive higher levels of free cash flow conversion.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: And if I may add into what we do, something I mentioned initially is that we're benchmarking our inventory levels plant for plant. On the one hand, benchmarking plants amongst each other with similar products to try and figure out who has the best inventory level and what can other plants strive for. But then on the other hand, it's also looking outside of Sensata. And looking at who's the best in class in inventory levels and measuring ourselves against them. And redefining our measures and trying to drive inventory levels down.

Kosta Tasoulis: Thanks for taking my questions, guys.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Thank you.

Operator: Our next question comes from Joe Spak from UBS. Please go ahead with your question.

Joe Spak: Thanks so much, everyone. Actually, I want to pick up on the free cash flow theme and how you're thinking about it for the second half. I think I heard, you know, 80% sort of a conversion. I'm not sure if that's a long-term target, mid-term target. And then also just on capex, and maybe this is obviously part of free cash flow, it looks like you're at 3% of sales in the first half. I think that's, you know, below historical, but maybe this is sort of the new normal for Sensata. So maybe just some help there on how you're thinking about that.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Thanks for the question. Look, generally, we've set ourselves an ambition to strive for a cash conversion rate at 80% or more.

Andrew Charles Lynch: Yeah. And I would just add to that. So good point on the lower level of CapEx in the second quarter. The dynamic there was candidly just as we were looking at uncertainty in the end markets and we saw production forecasts drop dramatically early in Q2 following the trade policy or tariff rate escalations, we throttled back some of our capex to respond to potentially lower revenue levels. Obviously, that didn't materialize. We saw that demand get restored. And so we'd expect an uptick in capex in the back half of the year. That said, I expect to be able to maintain pretty high levels of free cash flow conversion going forward. And 80% really is the floor.

We have plenty of levers available to us to maintain reasonably solid cash flow conversion here moving forward. Inventory hasn't come down dramatically yet. There's still opportunity there. CapEx, while it may not be as low as it was in the second quarter, we still have the opportunity to understand or spend at a level consistent with depreciation. And so I don't see that as a meaningful headwind.

Joe Spak: Okay. So even with depreciation is a good guide. Is that and I guess, like, versus I think in the past, it's sort of been, like, a 4% level. Do you think going forward, it can be a little bit below that?

Andrew Charles Lynch: I think 4% is probably a good proxy for what sort of normalized run rate CapEx looks like. It can vary in any given quarter. And certainly, we adjusted up or down based on kind of our view on market certainty, the investment opportunities ahead of us, you know, whether those are sort of near-term automation opportunities to drive productivity or longer-term opportunities around growth investment. Try to keep that all in balance.

Joe Spak: Okay. And then just on the deleveraging comment, you know, I guess I want to confirm how you're really thinking about this because you mentioned sort of net leverage going high, which to me sort of implies like, you know, the EBIT that's really coming from higher EBITDA. Or are you also planning to say sort of gross debt down? And are there any sort of leverage targets or how should we think about minimum cash just so we know what's available for dividend, share repurchase, or debt repayment?

Andrew Charles Lynch: Yeah. In the short term, we'll look to reduce net leverage by accumulating cash on the balance sheet. That's just a function of where our debt maturities sit and what the current interest rate environment looks like. We don't have any debt maturities until 2029. That doesn't mean that we're going to wait until 2029 to address gross debt. There will be opportunities here in the coming quarters to potentially take some action there, but in the immediate term, our focus is going to be on accumulating cash on the balance sheet. And then, of course, we still have a share repurchase program.

We didn't execute in Q2 at the same level we did in Q1, but we'll still maintain the flexibility to opportunistically repurchase shares as we see fit and keep that in balance with our net leverage targets. Certainly, we'd like to be below three times levered in the near term and moving towards two and a half relatively soon.

Joe Spak: Thanks so much.

Operator: Our next question comes from Shreyas Patil from Wolfe Research. Please go ahead with your question.

Shreyas Patil: Hey. Thanks so much for taking my question. Maybe just coming back to the China auto piece. Can you just help level set how big this is for you today? And just to clarify, how much of an uplift could we see from the new launches that you mentioned, Stephan, that are starting later this year? And then just to wrap, just to put a finer point on it, how do you see the competitive landscape in China specifically on the auto business? In the past, the sense was that the mid to low end of the China market was very difficult to penetrate either given vertical integration or price competition amongst some of the local suppliers.

I'm just curious if that is still how you see it or have there been changes in the market?

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Look, it's pretty much the same. It's obviously a very competitive region, a very competitive country. As you know, there's amongst the OEMs, there's price wars going on, which obviously trickles down as an effect to the tier-one level. That leads us to obviously being extremely focused on cost. It's something that we have reinitiated. It's part of the strong history of being very cost-focused. That's something that we've been focusing on even more in China. And following through on that in a very stringent way to stay competitive within the market. So what we do is take our products, we go back into the design and take out as much cost as we can in order to be competitive.

And on the other hand, some of the products that I mentioned in my earnings script just earlier on come with a certain level of technical differentiation, like the tire burst detection system, and that allows us to enter the market first and gain market share in comparison to others that do not have these functionalities yet. So that's how we tackle the competitiveness in the market. Again, it's a very important market for us as you can imagine that some of the Chinese OEMs that are hungry for market growth are stepping outside of the country and trying to gain market share in Europe, in Southeast Asia, being in Thailand, in Malaysia, and so on.

So high dynamic there, and that makes it interesting for us as a growth opportunity because if we win with the right players like we have, mentioned that we won 90% of our year-to-date new business with the top five local OEMs, with really leading so-called new energy vehicle players. And why do I say that? Because those are the players that will most probably also show growth outside of China. That will give us a solid opportunity to benefit from that additional growth in, for example, Southeast Asia or in Europe or wherever else they're growing.

Andrew Charles Lynch: And, Shreyas, just to give you clarity on the numbers, so the China market is about a quarter of our automotive business. So about 12% or so of overall Sensata's revenue, obviously varying depending on business mix within any given quarter. The growth opportunities that we've highlighted would be sufficient to return us to kind of the low to mid-single-digit outgrowth that we've targeted in our auto business. So that'll give you a little bit of context on the size. We're not talking about specific platforms or programs yet, but that's sort of the magnitude.

Shreyas Patil: Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe pivoting to HVOR, you talked about meaningful weakness in the end market there. Curious how you're thinking about outgrowth in that business, both near term and long term. In the past, you've talked about three to six points of outgrowth as a target for auto. I'm wondering if there's a similar target for HVOR.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Let me expand it in let me first start with the end market. With the end markets, and let me give you our perspective, and then I'll give you an outlook on how business is developing for Sensata. On the end markets, for on-road trucks, see that obviously for the entire year of 2025. Production is down. And you need to look at that from a regional perspective. So taking North America, or on-road trucks, we projected really quite a strong downturn of roughly 24% year over year for this financial year of 2025. And in Europe, on-road trucks were soft in the first half, which is roughly 6% down.

But projected to be up in the second half of this year. And looking at agricultural and construction, so it's expected to be down in a high single-digit percentage. And then the second half more positive than the first half. And then if you look at what are the actual slowdown drivers that are pushing that, so for on-roads, we're saying in North America, there's been no buy ahead on the payer twenty-seven and general macro uncertainty. And operators are not renewing their fleets, and that's what we're seeing in our numbers. Europe, we saw a soft quarter two on macro uncertainty. But we see that Q3 is pretty much normalizing on a year-over-year basis.

Now what does that mean for Sensata's business? So from a business perspective, we undergrew the market in the first half. And the reason for that is as Western production was down, our China production was up. Our content is generally higher on Western OEMs, but we actually expect this to continue in our HVOR segment through the balance of the year given the softness that we've seen in these western production forecasts.

Shreyas Patil: Okay. Great. Thank you.

Operator: Our next question comes from Christopher Glynn from Oppenheimer. Please go ahead with your question.

Christopher Glynn: Yeah. Thanks. Just give a little orienting question. To start on the guide. Third quarter is down about $30 million sequentially at the midpoint. Is that, you know, vast majority impact that performance sensing?

Andrew Charles Lynch: Yeah. That's right. We see auto production down about a million units sequentially. And then we see some softness in the off-road space accelerating in the third quarter, so all performance sensing.

Christopher Glynn: Okay. Great. And then just a couple content and outgrowth dynamics that might be in play. Curious how you see Europe phasing with some of the relaxation of the mandates for EVs if that's, you know, a CPV mix shift that progresses well in European auto through the back half of the year. And then, you know, you've talked a lot about the gains with local OEMs in China and starting to lap somewhat the share loss from multinationals. Have you indicated a timeframe when a growth crossover might be expected for China?

Andrew Charles Lynch: Sure. Let me start with Europe. So the relaxation of the mandates may ultimately lead to a slowdown in EV production in Europe. If it does, that would be a content tailwind for us. We haven't seen that yet. We've seen EV production continue to grow in the first half of the year in Europe, but that was a dynamic that played out last year for us. And so if you see that mixed shift again, that would be a potential outgrowth driver. Just a reminder there, we're about half the content per vehicle on an EV in Europe compared to an ICE.

As we move to next gens, we get above parity there, but on the current gens, that's where the content mix shifts. And then on the China question,

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Okay. Let me add something about that. So basically what to add that, Christopher, on the content side, even if EV growth is not as strong as predicted due to, you know, softening regulations. As we know, for example, in Europe, the combustion in Japan might be softened. Then we'd have probably a shift toward hybrid and mainly plug-in hybrid in the market, and, you know, Sensata has a broad portfolio mix which we could serve as well as can also obviously serve the EV market. So it's not a down for us. It's actually beneficial for us. And then, Chris, I think your question on China is one of the win start to show up in outgrowth.

So there's really two dynamics here around outgrowth in China. The first is the rapid share shift that we saw last year where multinationals lost share to locals, largely played out in the back half of last year. So we'll start to lap those comps into the third quarter. And so that outgrowth headwind starts to go away here in the back half of 2025, and we'd expect to perform more or less in line with market in China in the back half.

And then as these new businesses launch, which have design cycles and lead times that are less than a year, that'll start to show up in revenue late in 2025 and early into 2026 and set the foundation for outgrowth in China in 2026.

Christopher Glynn: Okay. Great. Thank you for that.

Operator: Our next question comes from Samik Chatterjee from JPMorgan. Please go ahead with your question.

Samik Chatterjee: Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. And, Andrew, congrats on the new role as well. Maybe if I can sort of go back to the China renewed piece of wins that you're discussing here. And great. Thanks for all the color till now, but maybe if you can sort of discuss how you're thinking about content per vehicle, where in the as you mentioned, the content per vehicle there can sometimes be lower than the Western OEMs. But in the new sort of win activity that you're seeing on that front, what are you finding out in really to content per vehicle opportunity? And do you see a road map here as you continue to drive those wins?

Is there a sort of more compression between the difference between the content on Western OEMs versus Chinese local OEMs? On that front. And I have a quick follow-up after that. Thank you.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: So, Andrew, you are starting to the point. So, basically, as I've mentioned in one of the previous calls, we've shifted our focus in China. So it's very important. Of course, you know, we want to win with the winners in China, and want to win with the right new energy vehicle producers in China. That's what we've been doing these last couple of months, and that has enabled us to win significant new business in the Chinese market. From a content point of view,

Andrew Charles Lynch: Yeah, for content in China, what really matters for us is you can look at it whether it's EV or ICE, you can look at it from a perspective of locals versus multinationals. Either way, it's about the same, which is that our content historically on EVs or on multinationals was much lower sorry. EVs or locals was much lower than with multinationals. And that's what we're starting to change. So these new wins will bring that content imbalance up to parity such that we don't have a headwind from the shift to local players as they continue to grow in the market.

Samik Chatterjee: Okay. Helpful. And just in terms of, Stephan, your earlier comments about the how you're thinking about where the incremental R&D dollars go, particularly if we do see a shift in the automotive industry towards more hybrid of EVs. That is beneficial for your content overall? How are you thinking about where the incremental R&D dollars are being dedicated in terms of platform strategy from your end? Thank you.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Yeah. So we've, you know, we've obviously been very selective on where we put our dollars in R&D. And, you know, one good example is to your question to your earlier question, that's basically placing the dollars into applications for China for Chinese new energy vehicles. So that's the one side of it. That's what we focus on. On the other hand is, you know, we're putting more and more of our R&D dollars in the industrial area. We've got, you know, a gas leak detection product. HUL and AHRI. Just ramping up. Some of them are still in the developed phase, and we're already thinking about certain follow-up versions, so improvements on these products.

So we put a certain level of dollars of R&D in these products. And then on the aerospace side, there's also significant growth opportunity there, and selectively, we've been putting more and more dollars in that area as well. That we can tap that growth in the market that we see. At least for the future.

Samik Chatterjee: Thank you. Thanks for taking my questions.

Operator: Our next question comes from William Stein from Truist Securities. Please go ahead with your question.

William Stein: Great. Thanks for taking my question. First, Andrew, congrats on the promotion. Stefan, I think analysts and investors have sort of been waiting for a new mantra to understand the long-term growth potential either for cash flow per share or earnings per share. And I think what you're communicating, I just it's sort of a clarifying question is that your priorities are to maintain the 19% operating margin sort of bogey, stabilize it, but not necessarily have such a hard focus on expanding it. Second is to improve free cash flow conversion, and third, to decrease leverage. Do we have that right?

And is there and maybe the connection to this is I've heard a couple of analysts refer to outgrowth, but I think those are targets that were set by prior managers of this business. Do you have an outgrowth target or mantra that you want to guide us towards for the long term?

Stephan Von Schuckmann: So thanks for the question. And, you know, let me reiterate and bring some clarity some more clarity into that. So first of all, again, we're going through an entire transformation. And by the way, this transformation is working for us. And also implemented a lot more focus and rigor in our organization. And like I've said now, we're emphasizing benchmarking. We're working on consistency. And we're working on topics like standardization. So we consistently and proactively improving our operations. Working on enhancing free cash flow, and then we're setting ourselves up like you discussion around China for growth in the future. Let me not be more specific. What does that mean in numbers?

So to be precise, what we said is and Andrew actually mentioned it's the floor of 80% cash conversion rate or more. So that is basically the bottom end of it. The floor of 19% margin or more. So as you can see, in Q3 and in Q4 of this year, we're looking at expanding margins by 20 basis points. And then we also said so there is a margin expansion included in that to get to be precise on your question.

And then we also said it's important that Sensata gets back to an organic growth rate, you know, by winning business in the market, by winning business in automotive with the right players, if we're back on track in HVOR, that we're making progress in industrial, in the aerospace area. And then overall, we said we said, okay. Let's target a growth rate organic growth rate of somewhere between 2 to 4%. And that's sort of the kind of the frame that I've given the company that we're focusing on now. And, you know, that is the path and the next 12 to 18 months, and that is that's what we're focusing on.

And we'll see where that takes us, sir. Thank you.

Operator: Our next question comes from Robert Jamieson from Vertical Research. Please go ahead with your question.

Robert Jamieson: Hey. Thanks for taking my questions. Stefan, I appreciate a call earlier that you provided over the last few conference calls. On your strategic initiatives. But I want to ask about the global sales team. Have you spent some time with them? Have you seen anything in their process that needed to be changed to enable them to more effectively, you know, target the right types of customers in the right regions that you've spoken about? I'm just curious if anything's been implemented there that's driven the year-to-date wins you mentioned in China with the locals and then also in Japan year-to-date?

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Can you just repeat the first sentence of your question? I didn't hear it. It was a bit not clear for me.

Robert Jamieson: Oh, it's just about the global sales team and just having implemented like has anything been implemented to make them more effective in terms of targeting the key regions, you know, that you mentioned, like winning with the right customer, etcetera?

Stephan Von Schuckmann: Yes, we have. Look, you know, we've entirely changed the focus. So take the electrification market and the opportunities that are emerging within this market, and they differ very much per region. So I think it's very important to be extremely selective in choosing who you want to grow with. This is really important because as we know, unfortunately, not everybody's growing in the market. And but some of them actually you could face a potential risk, especially in China. We know that there's a consolidation going on in the market. Or an accelerated consolidation amongst OEMs.

So yes, you know, the team in China is very much focused and not, you know, if I may say the more blunt way, not running after every business. But trying to choose very selectively the right customers that we believe are going to be future strong outgrowers in the Chinese market, and that's been challenging. You know, it's difficult to obviously choose these right customers, but we have a good level with built up, and that's also a change, a good level of intelligence around that. And, again, being very selective. And, obviously, let me expand a bit more on China. It's not just, you know, predicting the or trying to predict the consolidation game in China.

It's also trying to understand which of these future customers are going to grow outside of China. And as you probably know, there's a huge dynamic out there. So a lot of the big customers are entering European countries. They're entering Southeast Asia. And they're hungry for growth. And so for us, as a team, as a sales team, it's very important that we try and determine who are going to be the winners outside of China so that we can grow with them when we win business for them. So that's a different type of focus. And then again, in the mix of, you know, the applications, so around hybrid applications, around combustion engine applications.

I think we've basically broadened the scope a bit more. So we said, look. There's also very good opportunities around the combustion engine applications that we still go for. You know, we have the assets. We, you know, we have the products. And we'll also try and win in that sector. And why do we do that? Why does the sales team go after that? Because that somewhat balances off the risk that you might have on the EV side, you know, trying to predict who are going to be the winner. So yes, it's a total it's a different focus. And I feel we have a lot more clarity around that.

Robert Jamieson: That's very helpful. I appreciate that. And then just pivoting to the leak detection business, just curious if you could elaborate on the total addressable market there, what's that size, and then what's the margin profile versus the legacy? And does industrial sensors, you know, business? You know, I'm also curious, what's embedded in your guidance for this business for Q3. Is it still high single-digit outgrowth versus the market? Just given some of the things that we've heard about the resi demand environment from some of the pure play HVAC names today.

Stephan Von Schuckmann: So the on the gas leak detection, the overall market size in North America is roughly $150 million. And as I just mentioned in the call, we won a significant market share in this market. And if you then convert that to Europe, where we're now going to attack that market with our so-called A3 product range, it's overall Europe is a similar size market as what we have in North America with roughly $150 million in market size. And there are more markets beyond that are actually emerging in is the interesting thing. You know, there's soon as stronger or tighter regulations come out, in South Korea, for example, or in Japan. We'll be ready with our product.

You know, we're busy scaling up HOL and hopefully we'll be ready by then with A3. And then we'll selectively tackle those markets, and that's an additional opportunity where we can gain market share and, you know, gain additional revenues. Around the margin of the product, I'm gonna pass over to Andrew. He'll explain that to you.

Andrew Charles Lynch: Yeah. We're we've been coming up the curve on margin, but at the level that we're at today, sort of $70 million or so of annualized revenue, we're basically at or very close to normalized industrial margins. So scale has certainly helped there, but I think we're over the hump on where we need to be on margin scale. And then in terms of outgrowth in the third quarter, so you're right. The resi dynamic is changed a bit. We're still expecting outgrowth in the third quarter. We were high single digits in Q2, probably low to mid-single digits in the third quarter, and then similar kind of for the balance of the year.

Robert Jamieson: That's very helpful. Thank you.

Operator: And our final question today comes from Luke Junk from Baird. Good afternoon. First question. Maybe just one for me, Stephan, and really tapping into what you're just talking about, leak detection, but maybe broadening that out and sensing solutions. It seems like tapping into non-auto markets could be a pretty interesting opportunity here. Just hoping to get your sense of urgency, prioritizing that, I mean, including the message pretty loud and clear around China on the performance sensing side of the portfolio, but how should we think big picture about ring, big earning growth? And sensing solutions, maybe even beyond the leak detection product and potentially even offsetting some of the cyclicality and performance sensing. Thank you.

Andrew Charles Lynch: Luke, thanks for the question. Yeah. It's certainly part of our strategy is looking at opportunities to diversify our end market exposure, and we're weighing that in as we evaluate the new business opportunities for investment. Beyond A2L and industrial, certainly, we're looking thematically at things like broader demand for electrical rotation and the electrical protection opportunities that come with that. We're looking at grid hardening and grid opportunities in the protection opportunities that come with that. But I think those are all sort of longer-term secular opportunities. The clear near-term winner is the A2L product at various derivatives of that for other end markets.

And so, you know, while we'll continue to look at secular opportunities longer term, the focus in the short term is on taking the business that we've already won, expanding it, expanding margin share, and bringing it to other end markets.

Luke Junk: Understood. I'll leave it there. Thank you.

Operator: And ladies and gentlemen, with that, we'll conclude today's question and answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Andrew Charles Lynch for any closing remarks.

Andrew Charles Lynch: Thank you all for joining today's presentation. We look forward to seeing you at various investor events later this quarter. We currently expect to participate in the following events: Evercore ISI Semiconductor IT Hardware and Networking Conference in Chicago on August 26, Jeffrey's Industrial Conference in New York on September 3, and Goldman Sachs Technology Investors Conference in San Francisco on September 9. That concludes our second-quarter earnings conference call. Operator, you may now end the call.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, we do thank you for joining today's conference call and presentation has now concluded. You may now disconnect your lines.

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#179 – Mariya Moeva on the Impact of Google’s SiteKit on WordPress

30 July 2025 at 14:00
Transcript

[00:00:19] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.

Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress, the people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how the Google Site Kit plugin is attempting to simplify their product offering, right inside of WordPress.

If you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.

If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea. Featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.

So on the podcast today we have Mariya Moeva. Mariya has more than 15 years of experience in tech across search quality, developer advocacy, community building and outreach, and product management. Currently, she’s the product lead for Site Kit, Google’s official WordPress plugin.

She’s presented at Word Camp Europe in Basel this year and joins us to talk about the journey from studying classical Japanese literature to fighting web spam at Google, and eventually shaping open source tools for the web.

Mariya talks about her passion for the open web, and how years of direct feedback from site owners shaped the vision for Site Kit. Making complex analytics accessible and actionable for everyone, from solo bloggers to agencies and hosting providers.

Site Kit has had impressive growth for a WordPress plugin, currently there are 5 million active installs and a monthly user base of 700,000.

We learn how Site Kit bundles core Google products like Search Console, Analytics, Page Speed Insights, AdSense into a simpler, curated WordPress dashboard, giving actionable insights without the need to trawl through multiple complex interfaces.

Mariya explains how the plugin is intentionally beginner friendly with features like role-based dashboard sharing, integration with WordPress’ author and category systems, and some newer additions like Reader Revenue Manager to help site owners become more sustainable.

She shares Google’s motivations for investing so much in WordPress and the open web, and how her team is committed to active support, trying to respond rapidly on forums and listening closely to feedback.

We discussed Site Kit’s roadmap, from benchmarking and reporting features, to smarter, more personalized recommendations in the future.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by analytics dashboards, or are looking for ways to make data more practical and valuable inside WordPress, this episode is for you.

If you’re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.

And so without further delay, I bring you Mariya Moeva.

I’m joined on the podcast by Mariya Moeva. Hello, Mariya. Nice to meet you.

[00:03:35] Mariya Moeva: Nice to be here.

[00:03:36] Nathan Wrigley: Mariya is doing a presentation at WordCamp Europe. That’s where we are at the moment, and we’re going to be talking about the bits and the pieces that she does around Site Kit, the work that she does for Google. Given that you are a Googler, and that we’re going to be talking about a product that you have, will you just give us your bio? I’ve got it written here, you obviously put one on the WordCamp Europe website. But just roughly what is your place in WordPress and Google and Site Kit and all of that?

[00:04:05] Mariya Moeva: Yeah. I mean, I’ve had a very meandering path. When you would look back to what I studied, which was, you know, classical Japanese literature, all these poems about the moon and the cherry blossoms, who would’ve thought at that time that I would end up building open source plugins? But I did have a meandering path and I ended up here because, mostly because of passion for the open web, and for all kinds of weird websites that exist out there. I really love stumbling upon something great.

I started Google on the web spam team, actually looking into the Japanese spam market, because of this classical Japanese literature degree and the Japanese skills. And then after a couple years or so, I basically despaired of humanity because all you look at is spam every day. Bad sites, hacked sites, malicious pages. And I just wanted to do something that makes the web better rather than removing all the bad stuff.

And so I switched over to an advocacy role, and in that role I essentially was traveling, maybe attending 20, 30 conferences every year, talking to a lot of people about their needs, what they have to complain about Google, what requests they have. And I would collect all of this feedback, and then I would go back to the product teams and I would say, hey, this and this is something that people really want. And they would say, thank you for your feedback.

Essentially at one point I said, okay, we’re going to build this thing, and that’s why I switched into product role. And I was able to take all the feedback over the years, that we’ve gotten from developers and site owners, and to try to build something that makes sense for them. So that’s how I ended up in the product role for building Site Kit.

And the idea from the very beginning was to make it beginner friendly and to make it from their perspective to match that feedback, rather than doing something that is like, here’s your stuff from analytics, here’s your stuff from Search Console, figure it out. That’s how we ended up building this and it’s been now five years. And it actually just a month ago entered the top 10 plugins. So clearly people find some value in it.

We have 700,000 people that use it every month. And overall it’s currently at 5 million active installs, meaning that these sites are kind of pinging WordPress so they’re alive and kicking. It’s been very encouraging to see that what we’re doing is helpful to people and we will keep going. There’s a lot to do.

[00:06:29] Nathan Wrigley: I think it’s kind of amazing because in the WordPress space, there are some of the, let’s call them the heavy hitters. You know, the big plugins that we’ve all heard of, the Yoasts of this world that kind of thing. Jetpack, all those kind of things. This, honestly has gone under the radar a bit for me, and yet those numbers are truly huge. Four and a half to 5 million people over a span of five years is really rather incredible.

[00:06:54] Mariya Moeva: It grew very fast, yeah.

[00:06:55] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. And yet it’s not one that, well, I guess most people are reaching out to plugins to solve a problem, often a business problem. So, you know, there’s this idea of, I install this and there’s an ROI on that. This is not really that, not really ROI, it’s more site improvement. Okay, here’s a site that needs things fixing on it. Here’s some data about what can be fixed. And so maybe for that reason and that reason alone, it’s flown under the radar for me because it doesn’t have that commercial component to it.

[00:07:24] Mariya Moeva: Yeah, for sure. It’s for free and it’s not something that, yeah, sells features or has like a premium model and we don’t market it so much. But I run a little survey in the product where people tell us where they heard from it, and a lot of the responses are either YouTube video, or like blog posts or word of mouth. So it seems to be spreading more that way.

[00:07:46] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, no kidding. I’ll just say the URL out loud in case you’re at a computer when you’re listening to this. It’s SiteKit, as one word, dot withgoogle.com. I don’t know if that’s the canonical URL, but that’s where I ended up when I did a quick search for it. So sitekit.withgoogle.com. And over there you’ll be able to download well, as it labels itself, Google’s official WordPress plugin.

The first thing that surprises me is, a, Google’s interest in WordPress. That is fascinating to me. I mean, obviously we all know, Google is this giant, this leviathan. Maybe you’ve got interest in other CMSs, maybe not. I don’t really know. But I think that’s curious. But obviously 43% of the web, kind of makes sense to partner with WordPress, doesn’t it? To improve websites.

[00:08:31] Mariya Moeva: Yeah. I work with plenty of CMSs. I work with Wix, with Squarespace, and we essentially what I try to do and what my team tries to do, we are called the Ecosystem Team. So we want to bring the things that we think would be useful to site owners and businesses directly to where they are.

So if you are in your Wix dashboard, you should be able to see the things from Google that are useful. And same if you are in WordPress. And obviously WordPress is, orders of magnitude, a bigger footprint than any of the others. And also it has this special structure where everything is decentralised and people kind of mix and match. So that’s why we went with the plugin model. And using the public APIs, we want to show what’s possible.

Because all the data that we use is public data. There’s no special Google feature that only the Google product gets, right? We are just combining it in interesting ways because I’ve spent so much time talking to people, like what they need. And so we just curate and combine in ways that are actually helping people to make decisions and to kind of clear the clutter.

Because when you go to analytics, it’s like 50 reports and so many menus and it’s like, where do I start? So we try to give a starting point in Site Kit. And we also try to help with other things like make people sustainable. One thing that we recently launched just a month ago is called Reader Revenue Manager. So you can put a little prompt on your site, which asks people to give you like $2 or whatever currency you are in, or even put like a subscription.

And so the idea is you don’t have to have massive traffic in order to generate revenue from your content. If you have your hundred thousand loyal readers, they can help you be more sustainable. So we’re looking at these kind of features, like what can we launch that is more for small and medium sites and would be helpful? And how can we make it as simple as possible? So that people don’t kind of drop off during the setup because it’s too complicated.

[00:10:33] Nathan Wrigley: Would it be fair to summarise the plugin’s initial purpose as kind of binding a bunch of Google products, which otherwise you would have to go and navigate to elsewhere? So for example, I’m looking at the website now, Search Console, Analytics, Page Speed Insights, AdSense, Google Ads, and all of those kind of things. Typically we’d have to go and, you know, set up an account. I guess we’d have to do that with Site Kit anyway. But we’d have to go to the different URLs and do all of that.

The intention of this then is to bind that inside of the WordPress UI, so it’s not just the person who’s the admin of that account. You can open it up so that people who have the right permissions inside of WordPress, they can see, for example, Google Analytics data. And it gets presented on the backend of WordPress rather than having to go to these other URLs. Is that how it all began as a way of sort of surfacing Google product data inside the UI of WordPress?

[00:11:21] Mariya Moeva: Yeah, we wanted to bring the most important things directly to where people are, so they don’t have to bother going to 15 places. And we wanted to drastically decrease and curate the information so that it’s easy to understand, because when you have 15 dashboards in Analytics and 15 dashboards in Search Console, and then you have to figure out what to download and in which spreadsheet to merge and how to compare, then this is. Maybe if you have an agency taken care of, they can help you. But if you don’t, which 70% of our users say that they’re one person operation, so they’re taking care of their business, and on top of that, the website. We wanted to make it simpler to understand how you’re doing, and what you should do next with Google data.

[00:12:02] Nathan Wrigley: So it’s a curated interface. So it’s not, I mean, maybe you can pull in every single thing if you so wish. But the idea is you give a, I don’t know, an easier to understand interface to, for example, Google Analytics.

That was always the thing for me in Google Analytics. I’m sure that if you have the time and the expertise, like you’re an agency that deals with all of that, then all of that data is probably useful and credible. But for me, I just want to know some top level items. I don’t need to dig into the weeds of everything.

And there was menus within menus, within menus, and I would get lost very quickly, and dispirited and essentially give up. So I guess this is an endeavor to get you what you need quickly inside the WordPress admin, so you don’t have to be an expert.

[00:12:43] Mariya Moeva: Yeah. And then it gets more powerful when you are able to combine data from different products. So, for example, we have a feature called Search Funnel in the dashboard, which lets you, it combines data from Search Console on search impressions and search clicks, and then it combines data from Analytics on visitors on the site and conversions. So it kind of helps you map out the entire path, versus having to go over here, having to go over there, having to combine everything yourself. So when you combine things, then it gets also more powerful.

We have another feature which lets you combine data from AdSense and Analytics. So if you have AdSense on your site, you can then see which pages earn you the most revenue. So when you have that, suddenly you can see, okay, so I have now these pages here, what queries are they ranking for? How much time people spend on them? Can I expand my content in that direction? It helps you to be more focused in kind of the strategy that you have for your site.

[00:13:45] Nathan Wrigley: Is it just making, I mean, I say just, is it making API calls backwards and forwards to Google’s Analytics, Search Console, whatever, and then displaying that information, or is it kind of keeping it inside the WordPress database?

[00:13:58] Mariya Moeva: We don’t store anything, well, almost anything. Yeah, we wanted to keep the data as secure as possible, so we created this proxy service, which kind of helps to exchange the credentials. So the person can authenticate with their Google account, and then from there, the data is pulled via API, and we cache the dashboard for one hour. After that we refreshed authentication token. From the data itself, nothing is stored.

[00:14:23] Nathan Wrigley: So it’s just authentication information really that’s stored. Well, that’s kind of a given, I suppose. Otherwise you’ll be logging in every two minutes.

[00:14:29] Mariya Moeva: Right. So that’s the model that we have because we really wanted people to be able to access this data, but also to keep it secure. And because of how the WordPress database is, we didn’t feel like we could save it there.

[00:14:41] Nathan Wrigley: It sounds from what you’ve just said, it’s as if it’s combining things from a variety of different services, kind of linking them up in a structured way so that somebody who’s not particularly experienced can make connections between, I don’t know, ads and analytics. The spend on the ads and the analytics, you know, the ROI if you like.

Does it do things uniquely? Is there something you can get inside of Site Kit which you could not get out of the individual products if you went there? Or is it just more of a, well, we’ve done the hard work for you, we’ve mapped these things together so you don’t have to think about it?

[00:15:10] Mariya Moeva: The one thing that it does that I’m super excited about, and we’ll build on that, but we have the fundamental of it now, is it actually creates data for you. Because in contrast to Search Console or Analytics or all these other, which are kind of Google hosted, they can only tell you like a long help center article, go there on your site, then click this, then paste this code, right? They cannot help you with this, whereas Site Kit is on the website.

So if you agree, which we don’t install anything without people’s consent, like they have to activate the feature, but if you agree, then we can do things on your behalf. So for example, we can track every time someone clicks the signup button and we can generate an analytics event for you, even if that plugin normally doesn’t send analytics events. And that way, suddenly you have your conversion data available.

So very often people look to the top of the funnel, like how many people came to my site? But they don’t look to what these people did beyond kind of, oh, they stayed two minutes. So what does this mean? You want to see, did they buy the thing? Did they sign up for the thing, or subscribe or whatever it is? And we help create this data because we have this unique access to the source code of the site.

So we create, for example, on leads generation or purchases. We also, every time that a specific page is viewed, we will generate an event about the author of the page. So then we can aggregate the data, which authors bring in the most page views. Let’s say you have like a site with five, six, whatever authors. Or which categories are bringing in the most engagement and these kind of things.

[00:16:52] Nathan Wrigley: So it really does get very WordPressy. It’s not just to do with the Google side of things. It is mapping information from Google, so categories, author profiles, that kind of thing, and mapping them into the analytics that you get. Okay, that’s interesting. So it’s a two-way process, not just a one-way process.

[00:17:09] Mariya Moeva: Yeah. It’s very much integrated with WordPress. We have also a lot of other features, like for example, that kind of stretch into other parts of the website. So this Reader Revenue Manager that I mentioned before with the prompts that you can put on your pages. You can go to the individual post and for every post there’s like a little piece of control UI that we’ve added there in the compose screen, where you can say, this is excluded from this prompt, or, you know, you can control from there.

So we try to integrate where it makes sense, like where the person would want to take this action. And again, because it’s on the website, we can kind of spread out beyond just this one dashboard.

[00:17:48] Nathan Wrigley: And would I, as a site admin, would I be able to assign permissions to different user roles within WordPress? So for example, an editor, or a certain user profile, may be able to see a subset of data. You know, for example, I don’t know, you are involved in the spending on AdSense. But you, other user over there, you’ve got nothing to do with that. But you are into the analytics, so you can see that, and you over there you can see that. Is that possible?

[00:18:12] Mariya Moeva: We have something called dashboard sharing. So it has the same, like if you use Google Docs or anything like that, it has this little person with a plus in the corner, icon. And then from there, if you are the admin who set up this particular Google Service, who connected it to Site Kit, then you’re able to say who should be able to see it. So you essentially grant view only access to, let’s say all the editors, or all the contributors or whatever. And then you can choose which Google service’s data they can see.

[00:18:44] Nathan Wrigley: So yes is the answer to that, yeah.

[00:18:46] Mariya Moeva: Yeah, yeah. So they don’t have to set it up, I mean, they have to go through a very simplified setup, and then they basically get a kind of a screenshot. I mean it’s, you can still click on things, but you can’t change anything, so it’s kind of a view-only dashboard.

[00:18:59] Nathan Wrigley: I’m kind of curious about the market that you pitch this to. So sell is the wrong word because it’s a free plugin, but who you’re pitching it at. So obviously if you’ve got that end user, the site owner. Maybe they’ve got a site and they’ve got a small business with a team. Maybe it’s just them, so there’s the whole permissions thing there.

But also I know that Google, there are whole agencies out there who just specialise in Google products, and analysing the data that comes out of Analytics. Can you do that as well as an agency? Could I set this up for my clients and have some, you know, I’ve got my agency dashboard and I want to give this client access to this website, and this website and this website, but not these other ones? Can it be deployed on a sort of agency basis like that?

[00:19:38] Mariya Moeva: You would still have to activate it for every individual site. So in that sense, there’s a bunch of steps that you have to go through. But once it’s activated, you can then share with any kind of client. And actually we have a lot of agencies that can install it for every site that they have.

Just today someone came and after he saw the demo, he was like, okay, I’m going to install it for all my clients. Because what we’ve heard is that it’s exactly the level of information that a client would benefit from. And this means then that they pester the agency less. So we’ve literally heard people saying, you’re saving me a lot of phone calls. So that’s why agencies really like it.

And the next big feature request, which we’re working on right now, is to generate like an email report out of that. So for those who don’t even want to log into WordPress to see, there will be a possibility to get this in their inbox.

[00:20:30] Nathan Wrigley: So you could get it like a weekly summary, whatever it that wish to trigger. And, okay, so that could go anywhere really. And then your clients don’t even need to phone you about that.

[00:20:41] Mariya Moeva: Yeah. So we are trying to really actively reach people where they are, even if that’s their email inbox.

[00:20:49] Nathan Wrigley: And the other question I have is around your relationship with some of the bigger players, maybe hosting companies. Do you have this pre-installed on hosting cPanels and their, you know, whatever it is that they’ve got in their back end?

[00:21:02] Mariya Moeva: Yeah, we have quite a few hosting providers that pre-install it for their WordPress customers. The reason for this is that they see better lifetime value for those customers that have a good idea of how their site is doing. And yeah, Hostinger is one of those. cPanel. Elementor pre-installs it for all of their users. And they see very good feedback because again, it’s super simple to set up and super easy to understand once you have it. So for them it’s kind of like an extra feature that they can offer, extra value to their users for free.

[00:21:32] Nathan Wrigley: We know Google’s a fabulous company, but you don’t do things for nothing. So what’s the return? How does it work in reverse? So we know that presumably there must be an exchange of data. What are we signing up for if we install Site Kit?

[00:21:47] Mariya Moeva: So, at least, I mean, Google is a huge company, right? There’s hundreds of thousands of people working. So I can’t speak for the whole of Google, but I can speak for the Ecosystem Team, which I’m part of, like the web ecosystem.

The main investment here, or the main goal for us is that the open web continues to thrive, because if people don’t put content, interesting, relevant content on the open web, the search results are going to be very poor and that’s not a good product.

So our idea is to support all the people who create content to make sure that they’re found, like if you’re a local business, that people can find you when they need stuff from that particular local business. And what we see is that, especially for smaller and medium sites, they really struggle, first with going online, and then with figuring out what they’re supposed to do. And so a lot of them give up because in comparison to other platforms, it’s a little bit of an upfront investment, right? Like you have to pay for hosting, you have to set up the site, you have to add content.

So we try to help people as much as we can to see the value that the open web brings to them, so that they can continue to create for the open web. So that’s our hidden motivation. I think in that sense, we’re very much aligned with the WordPress community because here everybody cares about the open web and for all kind of small, weird websites to continue flourishing and get their like 100 or 300 or 1,000 readers that they deserve.

So that’s the motivation. I think because it includes other things like AdSense and AdWords, like people can set up a ads campaign directly from Site Kit in a very simplified flow, and the same thing for AdSense. Obviously some money exchanges hands, but this is relatively minor compared to the benefit that we think there is for the web in general.

[00:23:35] Nathan Wrigley: Google really does seem to have a very large presence at WordPress events. I mean, I don’t know about the smaller ones, you know, the regional sort of city based events, but at the, what they call flagship events, so WordCamp Asia and WordCamp Europe and US, there’s the whole sponsor area. And it’s usual to see one of the larger booths being occupied by Google. And I wonder, is it Site Kit that you are talking about when you are here or is it other things as well?

But also it’s curious to me that Google would be here in that presence, because those things are not cheap to maintain. So there must be somebody up in Google somewhere saying, okay, this is something we want to invest in. So is it Site Kit that you are basically at the booth talking about?

[00:24:19] Mariya Moeva: So me, yes, or people on my team. We have like a Site Kit section this year. There’s also Google Trends. There’s also some other people talking about user experience and on search. And this changes depending on which teams within Google want to reach out to the WordPress community.

But with Site Kit, we’ve been pretty consistent for the last six years. We are always part of the booth. But the kind of whole team, like the whole Google booth content has kind of changed over the years as well depending on who’s coming.

[00:24:51] Nathan Wrigley: I know that a lot of work being done is surrounding performance and things like that, and a lot of the Google staff that are in the WordPress space seem to be focused on that kind of thing, talking about the new APIs that are shipping in the browsers and all of those kind of things.

Okay, so on the face of it, a fairly straightforward product to use. But I’m guessing the devil is in the detail. How do you go about supporting this? So for example, if I was to install it and to run into some problems, do you have like a, I don’t know, a documentation area or do you have support, or chat or anything like that? Because I know that with the best will in the world, people are going to run into problems. How do people manage that kind of thing?

[00:25:27] Mariya Moeva: Yeah, this was something that I was super, I felt really strongly about based on my previous experience in the developer advocate world. Because very often I got feedback that it’s super hard to reach Google. And it’s also understandable given the scale of some of the products.

But when I started this project I insisted that we allocate resources for support. So we have two people full-time support. One of them is upstairs, the support lead. He knows the product inside and out. They’re always on the forum, the plugin forum, support forum. And they answer usually within 24 hours. So everybody who has a question gets their question answered.

We’ve also created the very detailed additions. When you have Site Kit, you also get a few additions to the Site Health forum, so you can share that information with them and they see like detailed stuff about the website so they can help debug. And in many, many cases, I’ve seen people coming pretty angry, leave a one star review, then James or Adam who are support people, engage with them, and then it turns into a five star review because they feel like, okay, someone listened to me and helped me figure out what is going on.

We have real people answering questions relatively quickly. And they don’t just go, of course they focus on the WordPress support forum, but they also check Reddit and other places where people like mentioned Site Kit, and they try to help and to direct them to the right place. So for Site Kit, we have very robust support.

Now, when it’s an issue with a product, a Google product that is connected to Site Kit, so it’s not a Site Kit problem, let’s say you got some kind of strange message from AdSense about your account status changing. Then we would have to hand over to the AdSense account manager or support team that they have, because we don’t know everything, like how AdSense makes decisions and stuff like that. But for anything Site Kit related, we are very fast to answer.

[00:27:22] Nathan Wrigley: That’s good to hear because I think you’re right. I think the perception with any giant company is that it kind of becomes a bit impersonal, and Google would be no exception. And having just a forum which never seems to get an answer, you drop something in, six months later, you go back and nobody’s done anything in there except close the thread, kind of slightly annoying. But something like this. So 24 hours, roughly speaking, is the turnaround time.

[00:27:45] Mariya Moeva: Yeah. I mean, not on the weekend, but yeah.

[00:27:46] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Still, that’s pretty amazing.

[00:27:47] Mariya Moeva: Yeah, yeah. We are very serious about this because, I mean, also the WordPress community is really strong, right? So you want to show that we care. We want to hear from people. A lot of bugs then also turn into feature requests and get prioritised to be developed. So, yeah, we really value when people come to complain. It’s a good thing.

[00:28:03] Nathan Wrigley: Excellent. Okay, well, we won’t open that as a goal, please send in your complaints. But nevertheless, it’s nice that you take it seriously.

So it sounds like it’s under active development. You sound like this is basically what you’re doing over at Google. Do you have a roadmap? Do you have a sort of laundry list of things that you want to achieve over the next six months? Interesting things that we might want to hear about.

[00:28:21] Mariya Moeva: Sure, yeah. I mean, my ultimate vision, which is not the next six months, I would love to move away as much as possible from just stats. As curated and as kind of structured as it is right now, and get more into like recommendations, and like to-do list. Because what I hear from people again and again, it’s like, I have two hours this month, tell me what should I do with those two hours?

So they’re asking a lot from us. They’re asking essentially to look, analyse everything and to prioritise their tasks, to tell them which one is the most important or most impactful. And this is like several levels of analysis further than where we are now.

So one thing that we are looking to work on is benchmarking, because you cannot know are you growing or not, unless you know how you’re doing on average. And today, people who are a little bit more savvy can do this of course, but a lot of people don’t. And so for us to be able to tell you, not just you got 20 clicks this week, but also this is okay for you, or this is better than last year, this time, or this is better than your competitors. I think that’s a really valuable way to interpret the data and to help people understand what it means.

[00:29:38] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. And really, Google is one of the only entities that can provide that kind of data.

[00:29:44] Mariya Moeva: Especially for search.

[00:29:45] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, especially against competitors. That’s really interesting because analysing the data, whilst it’s fun for some people, I feel it’s not that interesting for most people. And so just having spreadsheets of data, charts of data, it’s interesting and you no doubt gain some important knowledge from it. But being told, here’s the outcomes of that data, try doing this thing and try doing that thing, that is much more profound than just demonstrating the data.

And I’m guessing, I could be wrong about this, and I’ve more or less said this in every interview over the last year, I’m guessing there’s an AI component to all of that. Getting AI to sort of analyse the data and give useful feedback.

[00:30:22] Mariya Moeva: I mean, we are investigating how to do all of these things. I think in the case of WordPress, it’s a little bit trickier again, because of the distributed nature, and the fact that all the site information lives on the site and then all the Google information. So we’re not like fully hosted where you can access everything and control everything, something like a Squarespace or a Wix.

But there’s definitely, like AI is a perfect use case for this, right? Like benchmarking, you can bucket sites into relevant groups and then see, are they performing better or worse? That’s like classic machine learning case. And we will see exactly, technically, how we’re going to reach this, but that’s one of the things that we’re working on right now.

Another thing is to expand much more the conversion reporting and to help people understand, are they achieving their goals? Because this is something that surprisingly to me, so many people pay money and invest time in the site, and they cannot articulate what the site is doing. Is it working? Is it doing its job? And they’re like, well, like I got some people visiting. And I’m like, did they buy the thing? So you have to know what to

track, and then also to take action after you see the metrics, like to move them in one direction or another. And so helping people like map out this full funnel is one thing that we’re working on. And the other thing is also this email report.

[00:31:40] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that’s amazing. So really under active development. And you sound very impassioned about it. You sound like this has become your mission, you know?

[00:31:47] Mariya Moeva: I think, nobody ever complained that something is easy, right? When you make things simple and easy for people, they appreciate, even if they’re more knowledgeable than if they can do more advanced things themselves.

And I personally really care, like every time that I find a random website with really strange content, but just, someone put their soul into it. I recently found something in Zurich of like tours of Zurich, walking tours, by someone who really cares about history and architecture.

And it’s a terrible website design wise, but the content is amazing. And I was like, okay, this person could use some help, but he’s doing, or she’s doing like a great job at the content part, and then should get the traffic that they deserve for this. So that’s what motivates me also to come here.

One person, two or three WordCamps ago came over and was saying, everything about Google is hard except Site Kit. And I was like, yeah, that’s what we are trying to do. We really want to simplify things for you. So, yeah, being here is also super motivating. To talk to people and to hear feedback and feature requests. And again, we like when people come to complain.

[00:32:54] Nathan Wrigley: Well, I was just speaking to a few people prior to you entering the room and those few people all have Site Kit installed on their site. So you’re doing something right.

[00:33:02] Mariya Moeva: I hope it’s helpful. I hope it answers some questions and saves people some time. That’s what we are trying to do. Yeah, we are in the part of Google that has the ecosystem focus, so we know that ecosystem changes take longer. I mean, still it’s a fast growing plugin. It got to 5 million in 5 years, but still that’s 5 years. And in the context of software companies which move very fast, 5 years is a long time.

Yeah, we will keep going and hopefully more people can benefit from it. But we do have, yeah, still there are many people who come by and they’re like, whoa, what is this? Show me.

[00:33:36] Nathan Wrigley: Well, that’s nice. There’s for growth as well.

[00:33:38] Mariya Moeva: Yeah, yeah. For sure. I mean, for sure there’s always, and more people create new sites. So, again, going back to that hosting provider question of like, can we bring it to them at the moment of creation so that they know this is something I can use?

[00:33:50] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So one more time, the URL is sitekit.withgoogle.com. I will place that into the show notes as well.

Mariya, I think that’s everything that I have to ask. Thank you so much for chatting to me about Site Kit.

[00:34:01] Mariya Moeva: Yeah, thank you for the invitation. It’s been a pleasure to talk about the ecosystem. And, yeah, if people have feature requests, they can always write us either on GitHub in the Site Kit repo, or on the support forum, or if they are coming to any WordCamp where we also are, we are also super happy to hear. So we always love to know what people struggle with, so that we can build it for them and make it easy.

[00:34:23] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you very much indeed.

On the podcast today we have Mariya Moeva.

Mariya has more than 15 years of experience in tech across search quality, developer advocacy, community building and outreach, and product management. Currently she’s the product lead for Site Kit, Google’s official WordPress plugin. She’s presented at WordCamp Europe in Basel this year, and joins us to talk about the journey from studying classical Japanese literature to fighting web spam at Google, and eventually shaping open source tools for the web.

Mariya talks about her passion for the open web and how years of direct feedback from site owners shaped the vision for Site Kit, making complex analytics accessible and actionable for everyone, from solo bloggers to agencies and hosting providers.

Site Kit has had impressive growth for a WordPress plugin, currently there are 5 million active installs and a monthly user base of 700,000.

We learn how Site Kit bundles core Google products, like Search Console, Analytics, PageSpeed Insights, AdSense into a simpler, curated WordPress dashboard, giving actionable insights without the need to trawl through multiple complex interfaces.

Mariya explains how the plugin is intentionally beginner-friendly, with features like role-based dashboard sharing, integration with WordPress’ author and category systems, and some newer additions like Reader Revenue Manager to help site owners become more sustainable.

She shares Google’s motivations for investing so much in WordPress and the open web, and how her team is committed to active support, trying to respond rapidly on forums and listening closely to feedback.

We discuss Site Kit’s roadmap, from benchmarking and reporting features to smarter, more personalised recommendations in the future.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by analytics dashboards, or are looking for ways to make data more practical and valuable inside WordPress, this episode is for you.

Useful links

Site Kit

 Reader Revenue Manager

Google Trends

Site Kit support

Site Kit on GitHub

When I became an empty nester, I didn't know how to be by myself. I had to learn how to be just me.

30 July 2025 at 10:18
The author sitting on a white couch wearing a pink dress and neutral-colored heels.
The author had to figure out her next steps when she became an empty nester.

Courtesy of Christina Daves

  • When my kids moved out, I wasn't prepared for how unnerving the silence would feel.
  • I spent years pouring into everyone else and had to relearn what brought me joy.
  • Now, I've rediscovered my voice, embraced life over 50, and found a new kind of purpose.

For years, my life ran on a nonstop loop of various sporting events, travel to tournaments, and coordinating team dinners. My son and daughter both played travel sports. I was usually the team manager, organizing hotels, carpools, and group texts. Our weekends were booked for years. My house was the hub for prom, homecoming, and all the in-between moments. I worked, yes, and enjoyed it, but everything always came after my role as "Mom."

Then one day, the house was quiet.

I thought I'd be ready for the empty nest phase. I had friends who raved about the freedom. But I wasn't prepared for how unsettling it would feel.

When the noise stopped, the questions began

It's not just that the kids were gone. It's that everything that made our life feel full — the chaos, the laughter, the messy rooms, the mudroom full of shoes — was suddenly gone, too. I found myself lingering in the kitchen, waiting for someone to walk through the door. I missed the clutter. I missed the noise. I missed them.

And then I started missing me.

When you spend two decades being everything for everyone, it's easy to forget who you are outside of that. I didn't feel sad every day. I just felt like I was adrift. Untethered. Like I had checked all the boxes, and now I didn't know what came next.

I had to slow down long enough to figure things out

Initially, I stayed busy because that was what I knew. But eventually, I ran out of things to organize. I no longer had to pack the car with chairs and coolers. There were no games, no events, no post-practice dinners — just space.

And it turns out that space makes you listen.

That's when I started writing again. I remembered how much I loved telling stories — especially the stories of women like me who were figuring out this next chapter.

I still love the title "Mom," but I've loosened my grip on it

Don't get me wrong, I still love being a mom. But I've learned I can't hold it the same way I used to. My adult kids don't need a team manager. They need a sounding board. They need to know how to get their car repaired, which insurance to choose, or how to cook their favorite meal. They need space to grow. And I needed to realize that being a great mom now looks different from what it used to.

I no longer center my life around them. I cheer them on from the sidelines of their lives, but I've finally stepped onto the field of my own.

I started to live for myself

This isn't a story of an impulsive reinvention. I didn't sell everything and move across the world. But I did reinvent — quietly at first, then boldly. I let go of the version of me who only knew how to give. I started choosing things that lit me up.

I launched a podcast to spotlight women navigating life after 50, which has also become a regular television segment. I became a lifestyle expert on TV. I started writing professionally. I built a TikTok community from scratch, proof that midlife is not a slowdown, but a second wind.

The truth is, I never stopped being me. I just buried her under everyone else's needs. And now, I'm carefully, and sometimes clumsily, unearthing her again.

I'm not chasing some youthful version of myself. I'm claiming the wisdom I've earned and the freedom I nearly forgot I had.

This isn't the end of anything. It's just the first time I'm living fully as me.

Read the original article on Business Insider

Is this TV's endgame? A discussion with analyst Rich Greenfield.

30 July 2025 at 10:01
Robert Whittaker and Reinier de Ridder compete at the UFC Fight Night event at Etihad Arena in Abu Dhabi on July 26, 2025.
UFC fighters Robert Whittaker and Reinier de Ridder square off at an event Abu Dhabi. Analyst Rich Greenfield predicts David Ellison, who is about to buy Paramount, will bid for UFC rights.

FADEL SENNA/AFP via Getty Images

  • The TV business has been contracting for years, which is why media companies are trying to sell off their cable networks.
  • But David and Larry Ellison think there's long-term value in Paramount and its TV business, says analyst Rich Greenfield.
  • Greenfield also weighs in on new streaming launches from ESPN and Fox.

The TV business is not slowing down this summer: Any day now, David and Larry Ellison will finally buy Paramount, with its collection of once-storied TV networks like CBS and MTV. A few weeks later, ESPN and Fox — the last two big TV players that haven't launched their own streamers — will launch their own streamers.

But on the other hand, the TV business has been slowing down for a decade: Every quarter, more cable TV subscribers cut the cord, or never sign up for a cord in the first place. The people who own cable TV networks don't seem to have any plan to deal with the issue, other than trying to sell their cable TV networks.

Lightshed analyst Rich Greenfield has been chronicling the industry's massive, internet-driven change for years. I caught up with him on my Channels podcast to talk through the particular challenges — and perhaps some opportunities — facing TV right now. Here's an edited excerpt of our chat.

Peter Kafka: When the music business collapsed back in the Napster era, it happened basically overnight. But TV has hung on for much longer, even though consumer behavior changed pretty significantly over the last decade.

Is there something specific about the TV industry that's allowed these guys to move in slow motion?

Rich Greenfield: There's very few businesses where you can raise the price on a product that consumers are using less and less every day.

The brilliance of the cable TV business model was the big fat bundle. It's a pretty incredible business to put all of these channels together, even if people don't want most of them.

It had everything you wanted and no alternatives, which is very different than where we are today.

One of my soapboxes is when I hear people saying they wish we could go back to the cable days. And I keep saying, that was terrible. You guys forget. Everyone hated that.

I think consumers are pretty adept at managing their services, and I don't hear a lot of complaints. Sometimes it's like, "Where is this game?" Or "How do I find this thing?" It can be a little confusing.

But think about your cellphone. You've had one for quite a while now. Managing the apps and deleting something if you're not using it and adding something —these are all pretty easy functions.

We don't give consumers enough credit. They're pretty adept at figuring out cheaper solutions and ways to manage.

I want to ask you about a few specific companies. The Paramount deal is finally going to close. What do you think the new owners — David Ellison and his father, Larry Ellison — will do once they have control? Will it change overnight, or is this a slow-rolling thing?

It will certainly change.

The juxtaposition is sort of amazing. [Paramount, under current owner Shari Redstone, is a] financially strapped company, with challenged financial ownership.

And you're moving to an ownership team that is one of the wealthiest families on planet Earth.

David Ellison is probably going to be running this company for 30, 40 years. He obviously has a passion for entertainment. He's moving to a much bigger stage.

But this is still a financially struggling company. He can't fix the trends of what consumer behavior is changing. What he can do is invest and really build.

And you saw the "South Park" deal they just cut, where they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to move the show [exclusively] to Paramount+. I think it's a small sign of the post-merger strategy, which is that David Ellison is not just doing this to cut costs and squeeze more juice out of this existing company. His goal is to build something significant with a very long-term perspective, which is going to require a lot of investment.

What does that look like? Is the new Paramount just a film studio and a streaming service and CBS — and Ellison sells off everything that's not those things?

I think initially they'll say they need the cash flow from cable and will use that cash flow to reinvest.

I would be shocked if you didn't see more sports on CBS. I think they will be a contender for UFC rights. You've seen David Ellison multiple times in the past year sitting in the front row, cage side with Ari Emanuel [CEO of TKO Group, which owns UFC], and with [UFC CEO] Dana White.

And Donald Trump.

I don't disagree there on politics. But I also think he likes the content. I think he's going to spend a lot of money.

He understands the tech North Star — whether we're talking about TikTok, Meta, Netflix, or Spotify — it's all about time spent. I think David gets that Paramount+ needs a heck of a lot more time spent. The only way you're gonna get there is a better product and more content.

Let's move to Disney. Sometime in the next few weeks, before college football and the NFL starts, ESPN will finally be something you can buy as a stand-alone streaming service. If they rolled this out in 2015, we would have said it's a really big deal. Is it a big deal in 2025?

At $30 a month, I don't think this is a huge deal. My guess is it gives them flexibility to start packaging this with other services. They can probably get some subscribers. Not a lot. It's probably low to mid-single-digit millions. Not millions and millions.

Remember, they're giving the new service to everybody who already subscribed to [pay TV]. So 65 million-plus ESPN subscribers are going to get this new ESPN app at no additional cost.

So who is the audience for this? You're not subscribing to the big bundle. You're a pretty passionate sports fan. You're willing to spend $30 a month for sports. My guess is it's just a small number.

It actually makes sense to do it. But I don't think, at the end of the day, it is a huge needle-mover. What's going to matter to Disney stock is their theme park business and their cruise ship business. Those being better than expected — because of the state of the economy and what's happened with tariffs not being as problematic as feared a few months ago — is far more important to Disney than what happens with the ESPN streaming rollout.

We're also close to the launch of Fox's own streamer, Fox One. The main assets there are Fox Sports — which is really the NFL — and Fox News. Do you think Fox thinks this is primarily a product for people who want to watch football, or do you think it's primarily for Fox News fans?

I think this is a pretty limited offering for a sports fan.

So does that lead you to believe that Fox thinks this is really a Fox News product?

I think you'll see more uptake from Fox News viewers.

In the old days, you would have said that Fox News has a very old audience. And the idea that its audience is going to stream it doesn't make sense. But maybe that's not true in 2025?

Streaming's become pretty normalized. When you look at how many subscribers Netflix now has, I don't think streaming is some elitist thing. I think it's pretty normalized.

I think the part you may be missing is that the Fox News audience is also widening out.

And as you make it available to people on streaming, you may pick up some younger people. Maybe it's more interesting during election years. It creates flexibility. And I don't think there's a whole lot of downside.

All the basic cable networks are in freefall. Everyone who owns them is trying to sell them — either directly to another buyer or, in the case of Comcast's Versant, trying to bundle it up as a publicly traded stock. Who is a buyer for cable networks?

I don't think there are enough people talking about this topic. So many of the investors I deal with, or even industry executives I talk to, think you're going to see Paramount do a deal with Warner Bros. Or maybe you'll see Versant merge with some of the Paramount cable networks.

But let's just step back. I think David Ellison and Larry Ellison have a much bigger plan than aggregating more linear cable networks. I would be surprised if that was the strategy. I think there's a much bigger plan that the Ellison family is probably thinking about that goes well beyond just aggregating more legacy media assets.

WarnerMedia merged with Discovery, which hasn't created value. CBS and Viacom became Paramount, and that hasn't created value. Disney bought most of Fox's cable networks, and that hasn't created value. Putting legacy assets together that are in secular decline doesn't work. Maybe it might've been worse [without those deals].

But that's not compelling for a buyer.

It's a reason to be a seller. As a buyer, there's lots of things you could buy and lots of places you could go. The idea that buying more of these assets so that you have more costs to cut doesn't seem really compelling.

Another reason you are skeptical about big media consolidation is politics. You think that either antitrust politics, or Donald Trump's personal politics, make that unlikely. The only media mogul he wasn't complaining about was Rupert Murdoch, and now he's suing Murdoch.

Is there a world where anyone sells or buys a meaningful media asset while Donald Trump is president?

I think it's going to be challenging.

Read the original article on Business Insider

The Smartest Fintech Stocks to Buy With $500 Right Now

Key Points

  • Fintech stocks are hot, as the risk-on sentiment has swept the market.

  • Upstart is thriving after updating its AI model and making some other key changes.

  • Sezzle is delivering sizzling growth thanks to a differentiated approach to BNPL.

Fintech stocks have long been volatile. The sector surged during the pandemic before crashing in the 2022 bear market. However, as digital payments continue to take share from traditional forms of payment and AI ups the stakes in fintech, sector stocks have started to rally again, benefiting from the broader risk-on sentiment since President Trump paused the Liberation Day tariffs.

Several fintech stocks have soared since then, but there are two in particular that look poised to deliver multibagging returns if you have a little bit of cash to invest. Let's take a closer look.

Where to invest $1,000 right now? Our analyst team just revealed what they believe are the 10 best stocks to buy right now. Learn More »

A smartphone with a pay button on it.

Image source: Getty Images.

1. Upstart Holdings

Upstart (NASDAQ: UPST) was a fintech darling of the pandemic era as the stock posted triple-digit growth and delivered double-digit profit margins. However, when interest rates rose, demand for loans from its platform dried up, profits disappeared, and the stock was forgotten.

Since then, Upstart has improved its technology with better models that have led to higher conversion rates. It has strengthened its capital with new funding sources and streamlined its business, and now expects to be profitable again this year.

In addition to those improvements, Upstart is starting to tap into massive loan markets in auto and home as it continues to roll out those offerings in new states. As a result, the business is stronger than ever, though that's not reflected in its stock price. While Upstart stock has gained in recent weeks, the stock is still down roughly 80% from its peak in 2021, and its market cap is just $7 billion.

For a company chasing a massive addressable market and trying to disrupt traditional FICO scores, Upstart has the potential to be much larger than a $7 billion company, especially if interest rates fall again, stimulating loan demand. Even at current interest rates, the business is thriving. In the first quarter, revenue rose 67% to $213 million as fee revenue climbed 34% to $185 million.

Transaction volume doubled to 240,706, showing the benefit of its new, more advanced Model 18. If Upstart can maintain its momentum, the upside potential from here is considerable.

2. Sezzle

Like Upstart, Buy now, pay later (BNPL) companies also had a moment during the pandemic, soaring as demand for the new kind of payment took off before interest in the sector faded in the 2022 bear market.

However, BNPL hasn't gone away, and one of the fastest-growing companies in the space is now Sezzle (NASDAQ: SEZL), a BNPL that initially went public in Australia and has grown its business with a different strategy from most of its competitors. Instead of focusing on the merchant, Sezzle has prioritized the consumer, growing its business through subscription programs, rewards, and new product features like auto-couponing, which automatically finds coupons for customers as they shop.

That strategy seems to be resonating as Sezzle's growth rate has accelerated into the triple digits.

In its first quarter, the company reported revenue growth of 123% to $104.9 million as gross merchandise volume (GMV) rose 64.1% to $808.7 million.

Sezzle's profit margins have also soared alongside that growth as the company reported an operating margin of nearly 50%, showing the business model is highly scalable. The company has also managed its credit risk successfully, and cuts customers off from the product if they miss a payment.

Investors are valuing the stock like its growth story is coming to an end, but BNPL is also a massive addressable market, competing with credit cards, so there's plenty of runway for the company to grow.

At a market cap of $4.5 billion, the stock could easily be a multibagger from here, even as it's already up more than 800% over the past year.

Should you invest $1,000 in Upstart right now?

Before you buy stock in Upstart, consider this:

The Motley Fool Stock Advisor analyst team just identified what they believe are the 10 best stocks for investors to buy now… and Upstart wasn’t one of them. The 10 stocks that made the cut could produce monster returns in the coming years.

Consider when Netflix made this list on December 17, 2004... if you invested $1,000 at the time of our recommendation, you’d have $636,628!* Or when Nvidia made this list on April 15, 2005... if you invested $1,000 at the time of our recommendation, you’d have $1,063,471!*

Now, it’s worth noting Stock Advisor’s total average return is 1,041% — a market-crushing outperformance compared to 183% for the S&P 500. Don’t miss out on the latest top 10 list, available when you join Stock Advisor.

See the 10 stocks »

*Stock Advisor returns as of July 21, 2025

Jeremy Bowman has positions in Upstart. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Sezzle and Upstart. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.

5 Brilliant Growth Stocks to Buy Now and Hold for the Long Term

Key Points

  • Alphabet's AI strengths are being overlooked by the market.

  • Amazon is using AI behind the scenes to become more efficient and drive growth.

  • Meta Platforms and Pinterest are both using AI to drive advertising revenue growth.

The artificial intelligence (AI) boom continues to drive growth and transform industries, but it's not just infrastructure players that are benefiting. Some of the best long-term opportunities are with companies deploying AI behind the scenes.

Let's look at five brilliant AI-related growth stocks to buy and hold for the long haul.

Where to invest $1,000 right now? Our analyst team just revealed what they believe are the 10 best stocks to buy right now. Continue »

1. Alphabet

Investors continue to underestimate Alphabet (NASDAQ: GOOG) (NASDAQ: GOOGL), as they worry about AI disrupting its search business. But that view ignores what Google, its major component, actually does. This is a company built around content discovery -- not just traditional search -- and it's integrating AI into tools billions of people already use. And no other company is better at monetizing that content discovery through advertising than Alphabet. Its search data and digital ad network just cannot be matched.

The Chrome browser and Android operating system give it unmatched distribution; Chrome is the default search engine on the majority of devices, giving it a huge built-in advantage. And a recent Oppenheimer survey revealed that users found Google Search's new AI Mode more helpful than not only traditional search but also ChatGPT.

YouTube remains the world's largest ad-supported streaming platform. Google Cloud, Alphabet's cloud computing unit, is growing fast, helping companies build, train, and run AI models.

Google is also becoming a chip leader. Its Tensor Processing Units (TPUs) are helping to power AI development, while its Willow quantum computing chip may be a future growth driver. And Alphabet subsidiary Waymo is expanding its robotaxi footprint.

Taken altogether, Alphabet is one of the most innovative companies in the world, and one you want to own.

2. Amazon

Amazon (NASDAQ: AMZN) is using AI to become even more dominant. While it's best known for e-commerce and cloud computing, the company's behind-the-scenes work is where the real long-term value is being built.

On the logistics and warehouse side, Amazon is using AI to determine where to store inventory, create more efficient delivery routes, and even navigate hard-to-find drop-off points. Its robotics division just passed 1 million deployed units, and some of its AI-powered robots can detect damaged products or even repair themselves. Amazon also created a new AI model called DeepFleet that coordinates its entire robot fleet to help boost throughput.

The company's largest and fastest-growing business is Amazon Web Services (AWS). It helps customers build AI models and apps with tools like Bedrock and SageMaker, and then has them run those programs on its infrastructure. It's also developed custom AI chips that give it a cost advantage, and continues to invest in AI infrastructure to meet rising demand.

Overall, Amazon is well positioned for an increasingly AI-focused world.

3. Meta Platforms

Meta Platforms (NASDAQ: META) owns one of the world's most valuable digital advertising businesses, and AI is making it better. Its Llama models are driving more engagement across Facebook and Instagram, boosting user time spent on the apps. That gives Meta more ad inventory to sell. It's also using AI to help advertisers create better campaigns and target potential customers, which is increasing demand and leading to higher ad prices.

But Meta's growth story is just getting started. The company is only now beginning to serve ads on WhatsApp, which has over 3 billion users. It's also rolling out ads on Threads, its new social platform, which had 350 million users at the end of the first quarter. With two massive platforms still early in their monetization cycles and AI continuing to drive performance, Meta looks like a long-term winner in the AI-powered digital economy.

But the company is not stopping there. CEO Mark Zuckerberg is spending aggressively to poach top AI talent. This is all part of an effort to -- as Zuckerberg says -- "deliver personal superintelligence to everyone in the world." If it's successful, Meta could become the top AI stock to own.

A digital rendering of a brain labeled Ai.

Image source: Getty Images.

4. Pinterest

Meta isn't the only social media company using AI to drive growth. Pinterest (NYSE: PINS) has been using AI to evolve into a more shoppable and advertiser-friendly platform. The company has built a multimodal model that understands both images and text, allowing for better personalization and powering new features like visual search. Users can now click on items within images and shop for similar products directly, making Pinterest far more transactional and more attractive to both users and advertisers.

It's also working to simplify advertising on its platform. Performance+, its new AI-powered ad product, automates everything from campaign creation to targeting and bidding. That makes the platform easier to use for advertisers and helps them save time and drive better outcomes.

Pinterest has a global user base that has historically been undermonetized, especially compared to those of its peers. But with AI improving engagement, search, and ad performance, the company has a big opportunity to start to close that gap. If it can continue executing on its vision of merging content discovery with commerce, Pinterest could be a breakout growth story over the long term.

5. Toast

Toast (NYSE: TOST) has become one of the leading software platforms for the restaurant industry. What started as simply a point-of-sale system is now a full-stack software platform that helps restaurants streamline operations and drive more sales. Its newest tools -- like the AI-powered intelligence engine ToastIQ and the agent and assistant Sous Chef -- are designed to help restaurants make better decisions in real time.

Meanwhile, the company said a restaurant piloting its new menu upsell tool saw average order volume increase by 6%, while another restaurant group testing its new AI-powered advertising tool saw more than a "10x return on ad spend" with Google Ads.

Toast directly benefits from its customers' success, earning a cut of sales through payment processing. That creates a strong alignment between the business and its customers, so the company continues to innovate to help drive restaurant sales. Toast added 6,000 new locations in Q1 and now serves more than 140,000 restaurants. It's also expanding into chains like Applebee's and Topgolf, as well as adjacent verticals like hotel food service and retailers. It's slowly expanding overseas as well.

Toast's pace of innovation and expanding customer base give it a long runway of growth. This makes it a growth stock you want to own for the long term.

Should you invest $1,000 in Alphabet right now?

Before you buy stock in Alphabet, consider this:

The Motley Fool Stock Advisor analyst team just identified what they believe are the 10 best stocks for investors to buy now… and Alphabet wasn’t one of them. The 10 stocks that made the cut could produce monster returns in the coming years.

Consider when Netflix made this list on December 17, 2004... if you invested $1,000 at the time of our recommendation, you’d have $636,774!* Or when Nvidia made this list on April 15, 2005... if you invested $1,000 at the time of our recommendation, you’d have $1,064,942!*

Now, it’s worth noting Stock Advisor’s total average return is 1,040% — a market-crushing outperformance compared to 182% for the S&P 500. Don’t miss out on the latest top 10 list, available when you join Stock Advisor.

See the 10 stocks »

*Stock Advisor returns as of July 21, 2025

Geoffrey Seiler has positions in Alphabet, Pinterest, and Toast. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Alphabet, Amazon, Meta Platforms, Pinterest, and Toast. The Motley Fool recommends Topgolf Callaway Brands. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.

Comcast’s fix for streaming service overload is in your cable box

25 July 2025 at 19:16
An image of StreamStore

Streaming has become a tangled web of subscriptions, and now Comcast says it can help by putting all your services into one hub. Comcast is launching a new hub on its set-top boxes, called the StreamStore, where you can buy and manage subscriptions for more than 450 streaming apps and channels.

The StreamStore lives within Xfinity’s Xumo Stream Box and on X1 devices. It’s also available on the web, and features a collection of more than 200,000 movies and TV shows to rent or purchase. Xfinity will let you add or drop channels through the store, while tacking on new subscriptions to your monthly internet or TV bill, further positioning the company as a sort of streaming broker. 

Other cable / telecom companies like Verizon have tried to step in as a digital subscription service middleman, though Comcast is taking things a step further by putting this hub on your TV. But is streaming really messy enough that you need Comcast to manage it?

Some services included in the StreamStore include Netflix, Peacock, Disney Plus, Paramount Plus, Hulu, Apple TV Plus, HBO Max, and over 100 “niche” streaming subscriptions, according to LightReading. Xfinity already offers its own StreamSaver bundle, which includes a subscription to Apple TV Plus, Netflix with ads, and Peacock’s ad-supported plan for $15 per month.

The bundle is, of course, available through the StreamStore, and Xfinity says it plans on bringing new streaming bundles, apps, and “enhanced subscription management and activation capabilities” to the hub in the future.

(Disclosure: Comcast is an investor in Vox Media, The Verge’s parent company.)

Netflix is quietly searching for an exec to lead its video podcast efforts as it chases YouTube

25 July 2025 at 20:55
Co-CEO Ted Sarandos of Netflix stands in a red carpet.
Co-CEO Ted Sarandos of Netflix, which is said to be exploring video podcasts.

Earl Gibson III/GG2025/Penske Media via Getty Images

  • Netflix is quietly searching for an exec to lead its video podcast efforts.
  • The streamer is chasing YouTube, which has cemented itself as a video podcast titan.
  • Podcast listening and advertising are on the rise, and media giants are investing.

Netflix is quietly searching for a podcast leader as it looks to bring video pods onto the streaming platform, two people close to the company told Business Insider.

Netflix had previously explored potential deals with podcasters as it sought new areas of growth, as BI first reported. The hunt for an exec to lead a video podcasting effort shows how seriously Netflix is taking the space.

The streamer's interest comes as rival YouTube has cemented itself as a living-room fixture and video podcasting powerhouse.

Netflix has also shown interest in creator content more broadly.

"We're really excited about 'The Sidemen' and 'Pop the Balloon' and a wide variety of creators and video podcasters that might be a good fit for us, and particularly if they're doing great work and looking for different ways to connect with audiences," co-CEO Ted Sarandos said on the company's second-quarter earnings call this month. "The Sidemen" and "Pop the Balloon" are two Netflix shows that began in the creator realm.

Netflix has not publicized a podcast lead job opening and declined to comment for this story.

One person who had conversations with Netflix said the company wanted someone who could make video-first podcasts for a big audience.

Many of today's biggest podcasts started as audio-only endeavors and later added video as audience habits changed and YouTube gained prominence. The lines between video talk shows and podcasts have increasingly blurred, and newer podcasts often now start with video in mind.

It's not clear where the podcast role would sit inside Netflix.

A second person who had conversations with the company said they believed it would sit in Netflix's TV and film licensing arm under Lori Conkling rather than the original content side. That could signal that Netflix might look to license existing shows, as it's done with some YouTube creators like preschool entertainer Ms. Rachel, as well as make original shows with hosts. Separate content-side hires could follow.

Edison Research has charted the continued rise of podcast listening. In a new report out this week, the firm said 73% of people ages 12 and over in the US listen to or watch podcasts, up from 55% in 2020.

Video is on the rise, too, with 51% of people 12 and up saying they've watched a podcast, according to Edison.

Podcast advertising grew 26.4% to $2.4 billion in 2024, according to the IAB. EMARKETER projects it will top $2.5 billion in 2025.

Other media heavyweights have made big moves to chase the podcast-listening audience and the advertising that can come with it.

In February, Fox acquired Red Seat Ventures, which produces Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, and others. Amazon paid $300 million for podcast company Wondery in 2020, The New York Times reported at the time, after snapping up audiobook company Audible in 2008.

Read the original article on Business Insider

The top 10 most millennial-friendly places to buy a home, where prices are lower than average

25 July 2025 at 16:48
An overview of Raleigh, North Carolina.
Raleigh, North Carolina.

Chansak Joe/Getty Images

  • Home prices continue to climb, but some markets still might offer a good deal.
  • For younger homebuyers, some areas of the Southeast and Midwest might be more affordable.
  • These are the 10 most millennial-friendly housing markets.

Adulting could get a little easier, at least in these 10 cities.

As millennials move through their 30s and 40s and prepare to buy a house, they're faced with an increasingly expensive real estate market: the average home in the US sold for over half a million in the second quarter of 2025, at $512,800. The national median price of $435,300 in June was the highest on record.

But some areas of the country are more friendly to first-time, younger homebuyers than others, according to a recent study from SmartAsset.

Many of these areas are mid-sized metros in the Southeast and Midwest. The Midwest in particular has seen a boom in real estate activity in recent months, but remains one of the most affordable homebuying regions in the country, according to a Redfin report from earlier this year.

On the other hand, some of the most difficult places for millennials to buy homes feature the usual suspects — expensive housing markets on the coasts, such as San Francisco and New York City. Fewer than 1% of local millennials purchased a home in those areas in 2024. For those who purchased a house in the San Francisco area, the median millennial property value was a whopping $1,505,000.

Below are the top 10 metro areas where the local millennial population purchased the most homes in 2024, along with the median millennial property value and median income of millennial mortgagor.

For context, the median price of a home sold in the US was $410,800 and the average price is $513,800 in the second quarter of 2025, according to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development. Seven out of the 10 median millennial property values on this list are below the national median. All figures are based on metropolitan statistical areas, which may include surrounding suburbs and cross state lines.

Raleigh, NC
An overview of Raleigh, North Carolina.
Raleigh, North Carolina.

Chansak Joe/Getty Images

Local millennials who bought a home: 4.50%

Median millennial property value: $455,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $138,000

Indianapolis, IN
Indianapolis skyline over Soliders' and Sailors' Monument at dusk.
Indianapolis, Indiana.

Sean Pavone/Shutterstock

Local millennials who bought a home: 4.32%

Median millennial property value: $325,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $103,000

Charlotte, NC
Charlotte downtown
Charlotte, North Carolina, is a growing business hub.

Leonid Andronov/Getty Images

Local millennials who bought a home: 4.28%

Median millennial property value: $425,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $125,000

Nashville, TN
Nashville skyline
Known for its music, Nashville is also a growing business destination.

Jeremy Poland/Getty Images

Local millennials who bought a home: 4.08%

Median millennial property value: $455,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $123,000

Cincinnati, OH
Skyline  Cincinnati Ohio
The skyline of Cincinnati, Ohio.

Getty Images

Local millennials who bought a home: 4.06%

Median millennial property value: $315,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $107,000

Louisville, KY
Downtown Louisville, Kentucky.

Getty Images

Local millennials who bought a home: 4.04%

Median millennial property value: $285,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $91,000

Virginia Beach, VA
Homes along the beach in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
Homes along the beach in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

John Quinn/EyeEm via Getty Images

Local millennials who bought a home: 4.02%

Median millennial property value: $365,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $105,000

Milwaukee, WI
The Milwaukee Art Museum and city skyline are seen in an undated aerial photograph taken over the waterfront in Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Chelsey Lewis and Mike De Sisti/Milwaukee Journal Sentinel / Reuters

Local millennials who bought a home: 3.82%

Median millennial property value: $355,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $119,000

Jacksonville, FL
jacksonville fl

Getty Images

Local millennials who bought a home: 3.81%

Median millennial property value: $375,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $110,000

St. Louis, MO
A view of the St. Louis arch by the river at dusk.

Sean Pavone/Shutterstock

Local millennials who bought a home: 3.81%

Median millennial property value: $305,000

Median income of millennial mortgagors: $106,000

Read the original article on Business Insider

White House unveils sweeping plan to “win” global AI race through deregulation

24 July 2025 at 14:37

On Wednesday, the White House released "Winning the Race: America's AI Action Plan," a 25-page document that outlines the Trump administration's strategy to "maintain unquestioned and unchallenged global technological dominance" in AI through deregulation, infrastructure investment, and international partnerships. But critics are already taking aim at the plan, saying it's doing Big Tech a big favor.

Assistant to the President for Science and Technology Michael Kratsios and Special Advisor for AI and Crypto David Sacks crafted the plan, which frames AI development as a race the US must win against global competitors, particularly China.

The document describes AI as the catalyst for "an industrial revolution, an information revolution, and a renaissance—all at once." It calls for removing regulatory barriers that the administration says hamper private sector innovation. The plan explicitly reverses several Biden-era policies, including Executive Order 14110 on AI model safety measures, which President Trump rescinded on his first day in office during his second term.

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NetSTREIT Posts 22% Revenue Gain in Q2

Key Points

  • - Adjusted Funds from Operations (AFFO, non-GAAP) per diluted share of $0.33 for Q2 2025 significantly exceeded analyst estimates and AFFO per diluted share of $0.33 increased 3.1% year-over-year.

  • - Management raised its 2025 AFFO (non-GAAP) per share guidance, net investment activity outlook, and the quarterly dividend by 2.4% for Q3 2025.

  • - Portfolio occupancy stood at 99.9%, with a weighted average lease term of 9.8 years as of June 30, 2025, while new investments carried lower investment-grade tenant weight than prior periods.

NetSTREIT Corp. (NYSE:NTST), a retail-focused real estate investment trust (REIT) specializing in net-leased properties, announced its second quarter 2025 results on July 23, 2025. The company reported AFFO per diluted share of $0.33, which was well above the analyst consensus estimate of $0.06 (non-GAAP). Net income per diluted share (GAAP) reached $0.04, compared to a $(0.03) loss a year earlier. Revenue was $48.3 million, reflecting a 22.1% year-over-year increase. The quarter saw strong execution on portfolio expansion and an increase in the quarterly dividend. Results exceeded most key expectations (non-GAAP), and the outlook for both AFFO (non-GAAP) and investment activity for the remainder of FY2025 was raised.

MetricQ2 2025 ActualQ2 2025 EstimateQ2 2024 ActualY/Y Change
Net Income per Diluted Share (GAAP)$0.04$0.06$(0.03)$0.07
Adjusted Funds from Operations (AFFO) per Diluted Share$0.33$0.323.1 %
Funds from Operations (FFO) per Diluted Share$0.31$0.2714.8 %
Revenue (GAAP)$48.3 million$44.1 million$39.6 million22.1 %
Property-Level Cash NOI$39.3 million$32.2 million22.0 %

Source: Analyst estimates for the quarter provided by FactSet.

Business Overview and Key Success Factors

NetSTREIT Corp. is a REIT focused on acquiring and managing single-tenant, net-leased retail properties across the United States. In a net lease, tenants cover most property expenses such as taxes, insurance, and maintenance, leaving the landlord with stable rental income. NetSTREIT pursues a strategy centered on high tenant credit quality, long lease terms, and broad diversification across tenants, industries, and states.

Over recent quarters, NetSTREIT has zeroed in on several core areas: maintaining a high proportion of investment-grade tenants, locking in long-term leases, reducing reliance on any single tenant or sector, and keeping leverage within a defined target. These factors matter because they drive regular rental streams and limit risks related to tenant defaults or sector downturns.

Quarter Review: Portfolio Activity, Earnings, and Key Trends

This quarter, AFFO per diluted share came in at $0.33, a 3.1% year-over-year increase and materially above consensus estimates. Net income also turned positive compared to a loss in the same period last year. Total revenues (GAAP) reached $48.3 million, a 22.1% increase year-over-year, fueled mainly by rental growth from new investments and higher interest income on property loans. Funds from Operations (FFO), a key profit metric for REITs that strips out non-cash depreciation, jumped 14.8% year-over-year (non-GAAP).

Gross investment activity totaled $117.1 million, with 32 properties acquired at a blended initial yield (first-year cash return) of 7.8 %. At the same time, NetSTREIT sold 20 properties for $60.4 million at a 6.5% cash yield. Net investment activity, the difference between acquisitions and dispositions, was $49.4 million. The company also advanced its development pipeline, though at a modest scale relative to its stabilized property base.

Occupancy remained at 99.9%, signaling almost no vacancy across more than 700 properties. The weighted average lease term (WALT) across the portfolio was 9.8 years as of June 30, 2025, with new investments carrying leases averaging 15.7 years in length, meaning fresh acquisitions will deliver steady income for well over a decade on average. No tenant represented more than 5% of annualized base rent as of December 31, 2024, and the top five tenants together accounted for approximately 28.2% of ABR as of Q1 2025, helping mitigate risks from concentration. Recent dispositions were also targeted at reducing large-tenant exposures.

Tenant quality trends showed some shifts: over half (52.2%) of portfolio rent came from investment-grade tenants, but only 18.0% of new investment rent was from investment-grade tenants—a decrease from prior quarters. Management explained that high-quality tenants remain highly sought after and attract lower acquisition yields, while higher-risk tenants offer better returns.

Lease Terms, Diversification, and Financial Details

Lease structure and tenant mix are core strengths for NetSTREIT. With a portfolio-wide occupancy rate of 99.9% as of June 30, 2025, and only a small share of leases set to expire in the next several years, the company’s rental streams are well covered for the foreseeable future. This should bolster cash flow predictability for over a decade and lock in higher yields achieved from recent acquisitions. The company's measured approach to both buying and selling was evident in the continued reduction of exposure to larger tenants and sectors with higher risk, such as certain pharmacy and discount store operators.

Diversification remained a highlight. As of June 30, 2025, the portfolio comprised 705 properties in 45 states, with exposure spread across 106 tenants and 27 industries. No one property, sector, or geography accounted for an outsized proportion of overall rent, which is a key factor in providing stability through various economic cycles.

From a capital perspective, leverage increased modestly. Net debt to annualized adjusted EBITDAre, a non-GAAP REIT leverage ratio, was 5.9x—slightly above the stated target range of 4.5x to 5.5x. Adjusted net debt, which reflects the impact of forward equity sales yet to be settled, stood at 4.6 times annualized adjusted EBITDAre, within management’s target. Higher leverage reflected increased debt usage and forward equity, as well as the impact of recent acquisitions. NetSTREIT raised $46.1 million in new equity via its at-the-market (ATM) share program and maintained strong liquidity, with available capacity on its credit facility and cash totaling $594.2 million as of June 30, 2025.

Interest expense rose to $12.638 million from $7.604 million, alongside an increase in debt. General and administrative (G&A) costs also increased to $5.475 million.

Dividend, Guidance, and Outlook

The company raised its quarterly dividend by 2.4% to $0.215 per share (annualized $0.86).

Management raised its full-year AFFO (non-GAAP) guidance, now expecting $1.29 to $1.31 per share for 2025 (up from $1.28 to $1.30). Net investment activity guidance was also increased, with targeted net acquisitions of $125 million to $175 million for 2025 (previously $75 million to $125 million). This reflects the company’s confidence in its investment pipeline and ability to redeploy capital from asset sales into higher-yielding properties. No material changes were made to other operating targets such as leverage ratios or G&A expense forecasts, and management continues to emphasize the importance of external capital market access to support ongoing portfolio expansion.

Revenue and net income presented using U.S. generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) unless otherwise noted.

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#178 – Adam Silverstein Explores Transformative Browser Features Impacting WordPress Sites

23 July 2025 at 14:00
Transcript

[00:00:19] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.

Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how new, native browser features, are transforming what’s possible on the web.

If you’d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy and paste that URL into most podcast players.

If you have a topic that you’d like us to feature on the podcast, I’m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.

[00:01:10] Adam Silverstein: So on the podcast today we have Adam Silverstein.

Adam is a WordPress Core committer and works to fix bugs and improve modern web capabilities. He’s also a Developer Relations Engineer on Chrome’s Web Platform team at Google, and there he focuses on making the open web better for everyone.

Adam is here to break down how the rapid evolution of browser technology can supercharge your WordPress sites. We are doing this by referencing his presentation at WordCamp Europe 2025, in which he covered multiple new features of browsers, which can be used by WordPress users to bring a variety of experiences to their websites. In many cases these are browser APIs and features, and are quietly redefining what’s possible on the web. From CSS powered popovers, and scroll driven animations, to speculative loading that speeds up your page transitions. Adam explains how these advancements are changing what’s possible for both developers and end users.

The conversation sheds light on the collaboration between browser vendors, Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Edge, through initiatives like Interop and Baseline, paving the way for more consistent and robust features across platforms.

Adam also talks about practical topics central to the WordPress community, like how the Popover API and native CSS carousels reduce JavaScript bloat, make sites more accessible, and deliver a better overall user experience.

He shares exciting new frontiers, such as browser-based image processing, powered by WebAssembly, which is paving the way for universal support of modern formats like AVIF and Ultra HDR, and even running AI locally in your browser, no API key or cloud server required.

He provides concrete examples on how these technologies can be leveraged in WordPress via Core updates, canonical plugins, and Gutenberg experiments, with a special focus on how developers can get involved and offer feedback to help shape future web standards. Prepare to look at your browser in a whole new light, truly.

Whether you’re a theme designer, plugin developer, or site owner simply curious about what’s next, this episode is for you.

If you’re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you’ll find all the other episodes as well.

And so without further delay, I bring you Adam Silverstein.

[00:03:47] Nathan Wrigley: I am joined on the podcast by Adam Silverstein. Hello, Adam.

[00:03:51] Adam Silverstein: Hello.

[00:03:53] Nathan Wrigley: This is our second conversation. We had a conversation, I want to say four years ago, maybe more in San Diego, think. And at that point we talked about images, AVIF, WebP, those kind of things. We might get into that today.

Adam’s been working with Google for many, many years. Making the web a faster place, I think is a fair way to sum up your career. Just tell us a little bit about yourself, just so that, because this is a fairly technical topic and you are honestly going to have to teach me an awful lot as we speak. Let us know what your credentials are, why people should listen to what you have to say.

[00:04:21] Adam Silverstein: Oh, wow. Being a Googler is not good enough, huh? Well, I’ve been doing WordPress for a long, long time. I think I started, first started contributing back in 3.6. So I’m deeply involved in the Core project. I am a Core committer, which is something that I consider an honor, a privilege, and a responsibility. There’s not that many of us in the world, but I’m one of the people that actually commits code to WordPress.

And I used to have my own run, my own agency, tiny me agency, but building sites for clients directly. Then I wound up at 10up. Learned to build enterprise sites, and work with large teams, and do a lot of planning. And then eventually made my way to Google where I’ve been doing developer relations work. I’m trying to educate developers and bring things like all these new APIs that I talked about in this talk, so that people can learn about it.

[00:05:05] Nathan Wrigley: Have you been focused more or less entirely on WordPress, or are you in any way engaged with the Chrome team?

[00:05:11] Adam Silverstein: Yeah. So our team kind of organisationally was under Chrome, like that was kind of where we sit. We worked with other, like I’ve worked with Drupal and TYPO3. So I’ve worked with some of the other CMSs out there, especially like the open source ones. So that’s kind of been in my purview, but I would say primarily focused on WordPress. That’s where I’ve had the most experience and am most comfortable.

[00:05:32] Nathan Wrigley: It’s kind of interesting because on my computer, obviously I have a browser using Chrome, it’s kind of one of the most benign pieces of software that’s there, in that it doesn’t really have a task that’s assigned to it. I have a music editing piece of software, and I go there for that. And I have a video editing piece of software, and on it goes.

[00:05:49] Adam Silverstein: Yes. And you’re running those in your browser.

[00:05:51] Nathan Wrigley: Right. But also the browser is just this open thing, you know, you can basically do anything in it, and so incredibly powerful. And it feels like in the last few years it’s got way more powerful. But most of that is entirely hidden because I open it up and it looks broadly the same today as it did five years ago. You know, the UI may have changed a little bit.

[00:06:13] Adam Silverstein: Right. But what’s changed is what you can do with it, right? So you talked about editing video or editing audio in your browser. Like, that was not something that was possible five or 10 years ago when we had blue links and HTML. And it was basically, we were publishing newspapers on the web. That was the limit of what we could do.

[00:06:29] Nathan Wrigley: I have an app, it’s called Descript. I don’t know if you’ve come across it, but it’s a full audio, video editing suite entirely in the browser.

[00:06:37] Adam Silverstein: And famously Adobe released Photoshop. Runs in the browser. The full Photoshop. Yeah, I mean it’s like mind blowing that that’s even possible.

[00:06:45] Nathan Wrigley: So the capabilities of the browser have dramatically increased. And you’ve just done, or you’re about to do? Just done.

[00:06:54] Adam Silverstein: Yes.

[00:06:55] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Firstly, how did It go?

[00:06:56] Adam Silverstein: It went great. Packed room. I think people got something out of it. People gave me good feedback.

[00:07:00] Nathan Wrigley: And it was called Modernising WordPress with New Web Platforms. And I’m just going to read a bit of the blurb that went with that. It says, WordPress is a powerful platform for building websites of all shapes and sizes. To truly thrive, WordPress is embracing the latest advancements in web technology. This talk will explore how developers and site owners can leverage cutting edge web platform capabilities to create next generation WordPress experiences. And then there’s a little bit more which mentions web APIs and so on and so forth. So that really is going to be the core of this discussion.

Now, caveat emptor, dear listener, I have nowhere near enough knowledge to ask you these questions. But I’m going to hope that you are going to help me through it.

So first stop then, let’s just go through a whole laundry list of these different APIs. What are some of the fun things that a browser can do now, that it couldn’t do previously?

[00:07:53] Adam Silverstein: So in the talk, I sort of break it into three areas. There are features that help developers do things that maybe we could do, but we struggled or relied on heavy JavaScript libraries to do.

There’s things that help users by creating better experiences on the web than we previously had the ability to do.

And then the third category is things that previously were just impossible. Just things that we can now do, like running Photoshop in the browser, we mentioned that we could not do before.

So I did not explore, this is not, the talk was not like an exhaustive list of all the APIs, but it was rather sort of a selection of ones that I thought were interesting. Most of them are new. They are sometimes available only in one browser, not in all the browsers. So they’re things that are coming to the web platform. Some of them were already on the web platform.

So let’s go through them. I’ll see if I can remember them all. I have my little slide deck here.

So in the category of helping developers, the first one that I talked about is this thing called the Popover API. So popovers are simply like dialogues or elements that you want to hover above the rest of the page content. And in WordPress we use these extensively in the admin. Like for example, the pointers that you get when you install a new plugin. Or if you open a dialogue, or even like mobile menus use a popover.

And we have it in Gutenberg. And so we already have this technology, but it relies on JavaScript, and it’s actually surprisingly complicated to do a popover. You have to pay attention to always being at the highest level. And if there’s another popover, how do you handle that? And you have to make sure it’s accessible, so when the user hits the escape key, the popover closes.

And if it’s a pointer that’s trying to point to a new feature, say in a menu, how do you handle when the user resizes the window and that element moves? These are very complicated things. And in JavaScript that means you’ve got a heavy library that’s running just to do this simple popover thing.

So with this new CSS based popover API, you can create a popover with just a couple of lines in your code, and the browser takes care of all of the complicated parts of actually doing the popover.

[00:09:49] Nathan Wrigley: So just pausing there for a moment. The whole power of CSS, I’m going to say three years, this has been capturing my attention. CSS seems to be able to do a load of programmatic things now that it didn’t used to be able to. So in this case it’s, I don’t know, it’s calculating the height of the viewport and figuring out is there another thing, how much further to move it down? All of this being handled natively in the browser.

[00:10:13] Adam Silverstein: Exactly. And I think like your point is very true, like CSS capabilities have grown tremendously, and the ability to do sophisticated layouts. And all of these kind of feature things that typically might require JavaScript, now we can do directly in CSS, even things like calculations.

So CSS is a programming language just like JavaScript, right? People like to poo poo it and and so forth, but it’s quite powerful. And a lot of these features that I’m talking about are based on CSS.

[00:10:36] Nathan Wrigley: It’s kind of interesting, if the 18-year-old me was beginning again, I think CSS would be the thing that I would do first. I think I would learn that inside and out before ever looking at JavaScript. Because I you’ve got the foundation of modern CSS, and I know there’s a lot of W3C things that are still being decided and what have you, and obviously the browsers have got various different capabilities. But so much that we would’ve relied on for JavaScript is now capable with CSS, but unexplored I think by many.

[00:11:08] Adam Silverstein: Right. So this feature popover is available in all the browsers. It’s in Baseline. So Baseline is the set of features that developers should be looking at for deciding what they can use. Baseline is a somewhat new concept, so people might not be aware of it. But it is basically a way of knowing which features are available on all the major browsers. So if you see a feature that is labeled Baseline, like in the MDN docs, that means it’s available on all the browsers. You can count on it as a developer.

So in my talk, I covered a lot of APIs that are actually not in Baseline yet. They’re still in development. They maybe are available only in Chrome, or Chrome and Edge, or maybe Chrome and Edge and Firefox, but not Safari. As developer, those are the APIs you need to be a little bit wary of, right, because you wanna build something that’s going to work for everyone.

In many cases, the API will gracefully degrade, it just won’t work in the non-supporting browser. But in the case of like a popover, if it is supported in all the browsers, so you’re safe to use it. If it wasn’t, you would need to have that JavaScript as a fallback. So some of these APIs are, you know, new and experimental, but the browser vendors are all planning on adding support for them. So I only choose APIs that actually browser vendors have indicated their support.

[00:12:14] Nathan Wrigley: Can we just pause there a moment because I began my journey with the web, oh, Internet Explorer 5 kind of days. You probably remember the days as well as I do, and it was chaos, you know? I mean, really we had to try and fix a whole bunch of things that Internet Explorer did differently from all the other browsers. The browsers didn’t agree on almost anything. They went off in completely different directions.

That, I’m going to say, over the last five or maybe more, maybe more like eight years, there seems to have been a real confluence of, and I don’t know if that’s done from like a senior management level, but it does seem like Mozilla is talking to Chromium, Chromium is talking to Safari, and a lot of the people seem to attend the same conferences and talk the same language. They may adopt it at different rates, but they’re all trying to get to the same point, the open web.

[00:13:00] Adam Silverstein: Yes. And in fact, they’ve developed an approach to collaborate on this, and that is called Interop. So the Interop effort is sort of a group effort by all of the browsers to agree upon a set of features that they’re going to work on for each calendar year. So there’s Interop 2025, there’ll be one for 2026, and so forth.

And these features are, they come from either the browser’s needs, what they want to build, or from developers. So there’s an open process where they open a GitHub repo each fall and developers can go and submit. And we’ve actually had some from WordPress that made it in and influenced what browsers do.

So as developers are out there working, they’re finding pain points, they’re struggling to do this or struggling to do that, or it doesn’t work well in one browser. It works in one browser, but not the other. Interop is sort of the effort each year to come up with a set that the browsers agree upon working on. And those features hopefully all land in Baseline the following year.

I remember those days very well, and that’s why we have things like jQuery, right? So we had all these libraries that were built with this promise of sort of normalising the capabilities. Now, you’re absolutely right, the browsers have realised this is a problem for developers and they’ve come together to form a standard, and that is the Baseline thing that I mentioned.

So they’re always building new APIs on their own, and some of them will never make it into all the browsers, and they may go away or they may change. But if they make it into Baseline, you can be sure that you can use them. And that’s what’s different, right? We have this set of features that we can rely on.

[00:14:21] Nathan Wrigley: I kind of feel we lost a decade somewhere of real productivity. You know, the browsers could have been capable of a whole lot more than they are now. I mean, we’re happy with where we’ve got, but it does feel like we lost, this proprietary approach to browsers really wasn’t in the best interest of anybody. But you can see how it grew out of Microsoft and all of these other organizations.

I’m guessing that Google with its Chromium browser, Chromium based browser, the fact that that became utterly dominant was probably quite a pivotal point. You know, it was in the sort of eighties and nineties percent, adopted by 80 or 90%. I guess Google was able to push things through a little bit more.

[00:14:59] Adam Silverstein: Perhaps, like they do often lead on features. I mean, I wouldn’t say they’re always the lead on features, sometimes Safari has a great idea and they want to develop it, and with Firefox as well. But they do have a huge effort going into it. And, you know, of course Microsoft famously adopted Chromium as the engine for Edge. And so Microsoft is actively contributing as well to Chromium, which is the core of Chrome.

So yes, I think the dominance did allow them to sort of lead on features and have the other browsers sort of need to follow. If Chrome is going to ship a feature, everyone’s going to use it. But I don’t know if that’s always the case. You know, when you read these, I’ve read some of these proposals, you know, the browser vendors, they talk to each other in the open, right?

So these aren’t like private conversations that are happening in a room somewhere. They are all into open source software. So they’re, you know, there’s a repo where like, for example, Chrome will come in and say, we’re working on this new API, we would like feedback from the teams building Mozilla and Safari about if this is a good feature, are you going to support this? And that’s like typically early in the process where they try to get that feedback so they know whether this is something that is likely to land in the platform.

[00:16:02] Nathan Wrigley: I don’t really know whether it was the best thing for one browser to sort of win out, but it certainly seems now that the dust has settled, it seems that that was a fairly good thing to happen.

[00:16:11] Adam Silverstein: Yeah, I mean, I think if we had only had one browser, that would not be good. I mean, Apple is definitely dominant on mobile in markets where iPhones are very popular.

[00:16:21] Nathan Wrigley: North America, for example.

[00:16:22] Adam Silverstein: Exactly. North America and Europe, I think as well. Although if you look at most of the world, it’s actually Android that is far more dominant. So that’s where Chrome gets a big percentage of its users because Android is the default browser there, just as Safari is the default browser on iOS devices

[00:16:35] Nathan Wrigley: I guess there was the whole Chromebook thing as well with, you know Google trying to promote this idea of a browser computer, for want of a better word.

[00:16:43] Adam Silverstein: Chrome OS.

[00:16:44] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, Chrome OS exactly. And but the idea that, when it first came out, I remember looking at Chromebooks and thinking, yeah, it’s intriguing. It can do Google Docs, but where’s the video editing? Where’s the audio editing? I’m guessing like a modern Chromebook is a full swap out for a, it just doesn’t have the physical storage memory in some cases.

[00:17:01] Adam Silverstein: It doesn’t have any. It’s, well, I mean, it has some for caching, but basically you log in and that’s your computer. Someone else logs in, it’s their computer. It’s fully in the cloud.

[00:17:09] Nathan Wrigley: It’s pretty amazing.

[00:17:10] Adam Silverstein: Although I will say, I bought a cheap Chromebook, like 150 bucks, refurbished, but I bought it to travel with so that I didn’t have to carry around my eight pound MacBook Pro. And because I’m a developer, I figured out how to do development work on it. You can install Linux on it and run, you know, Docker and all the things that you can do on a desktop machine.

Does take some effort, like that’s not built in. But they are actually full computers, it’s just that the way the operating system is set up is this sort of cloud-based thing.

But it’s quite, I think they’re amazing honestly. And, like I said, very inexpensive and also like bulletproof. You never have problems with them because your whole world is basically the browser.

[00:17:47] Nathan Wrigley: And it kind of boots in half a moment, and it’s so secure.

[00:17:51] Adam Silverstein: Yeah. They’re fantastic, and especially for like schools or corporate settings because it has all that management built in. I think they’re great computers. I would definitely recommend them, especially for people who don’t want to spend all the money that it takes to get, you know, and especially like you’re saying, everything’s in the browser these days. So there’s really, you don’t need a desktop computer to do most things.

[00:18:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I think we painted a picture of the power of the browser, we’ve done well there. We got kind of hijacked a little bit. So you were talking about popovers, that was the first thing. Let’s return to that. What’s one of the other things mentioned?

[00:18:20] Adam Silverstein: Next on my list is this Scroll Animations API. So this is animations like CSS animations that are either triggered or tied to a scroll event. So you could think about, like Slider Revolution has this feature in it, or you’ve seen it on like Apple’s website where you’re scrolling and as you’re scrolling an image is fading in or something is being revealed. Or another good example is like a reading indicator that Medium has at the top of the page as you scroll down.

So we can do these things today with JavaScript, but it involves paying attention to the user scroll position, and this kind of heavy handed approach to monitoring the user. With CSS scroll driven animations, it’s just a couple of lines of CSS and suddenly you’ve tied an animation to scrolling.

[00:19:01] Nathan Wrigley: So again, all handled by CSS, no need for a JavaScript library. Any impact in, I mean, these JavaScript libraries are famous for sort of bogging things down, tons of bloat and what have you. I’m guessing that because it’s shipping in the browser, that is minimal to say the least, almost non-existent.

[00:19:17] Adam Silverstein: Yes, and the animations are CSS animations, so they’re not happening on the main thread. JavaScript famously has one main thread, and if you have something running on that main thread, it’s going to interfere with other JavaScript. So if you can get rid of some of the JavaScript on your website, that’s freeing up that thread for the other JavaScript that you have, that you want to do to track your analytics or to, whatever else you’re trying to do on your page with JavaScript. This is one less piece of JavaScript you need on your site.

[00:19:42] Nathan Wrigley: The feature that you’ve just mentioned is something that I guess WordPress developers are going to be particularly interested in. They love all that stuff.

[00:19:48] Adam Silverstein: Yes, clients love it. They love animations. And again, this is something that’s very lightweight, right? The argument against these types of animations is they’re typically very heavy.

The other advantages of using CSS based features versus JavaScript is accessibility. Often these features, I mean this isn’t necessarily true with scroll driven, but like with the carousels, it’s got that accessibility built in. It’s got the escaping out of the dialogue.

Again and again we see that, when you build something in JavaScript, I’m going to talk in a minute about CSS carousels. When you build it in JavaScript, if you want to make it accessible, there’s a lot of extra work that goes into doing that well. If the browser builds the feature in as like a fundamental, almost like an HTML component, then the expectation is the browser will take care of that for you. So as a developer, you won’t even have to pay attention to it.

[00:20:36] Nathan Wrigley: I’m guessing that in the case of the one you’ve just described, that’s really easy to map onto this podcast because a WordPress user, they’re using a page builder or something like that. They’re going to have encountered these options, you know, somewhere buried in the settings for this image component is a fade in on scroll.

And I’m guessing that in the future in WordPress, this might be some sort of toggle in a block, an image block or something like that. You’ll just switch it on, assign some characteristics to it like, I don’t know, fade to 50% at halfway through the viewport. And that will just create the CSS, but all done inside of a panel of a block.

[00:21:11] Adam Silverstein: Yeah, I did exactly that as a pull request and have a link to that in my talk. Yeah, that’s a great example. It could be an image, it could be a header block.

I guess one question I have as a Core committer is whether that is actually Core territory. We have this long standing philosophy in WordPress that it’s kind of the 80 20 rule that a feature that we land in Core should benefit 80% of users, otherwise it belongs in plugin territory.

That said, one of the things we’re talking about now is this idea of canonical blocks. So there’s a lot of new blocks being proposed in Gutenberg right now, and the question is like, how many blocks do you actually want to ship with the editor? There’s a zillion different things you could think of building a block for, or a feature like animation, say for images like we’re talking about. But if it’s not valuable for all users, does it really belong in Core? And does it just overload the list of blocks they have to choose from, or the list of features they have to choose from? Why not just let plugins extend it?

The other idea, like I said is this idea of canonical blocks. So you could have a block that’s developed by the Core team, is supported by Core, and is directly installable in the admin, in a like clearly labeled way that this is a Core product. But actually not ship it with WordPress. So it’s something that you could install with one click. I mean, we actually haven’t defined exactly what a canonical block or plugin is, but this is sort of what my idea is. It’s something that’s like, you’re one step away from having it installed.

[00:22:27] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it feels like a canonical plugin, at least feels to me like something which has the security guarantee of Core, plus the updating guarantee of Core. Basically if you install it, it’s going to work with the latest version of WordPress, plus the all the backwards compatibility. I kind of like the idea of, like Apple ship with things like iOS, like Core animations. A plugin which just enables the animations in Core blocks.

[00:22:51] Adam Silverstein: Right. Like the capability might already be there. I mean, you know, so one of the other APIs that I talked about in another section is the Speculative Loading API. So this is a good example. And this is actually shipping in WordPress 6.8. And this is the ability for the browser to prefetch the resources for a page that a user is about to navigate to.

And in WordPress, we shipped it in the most conservative mode possible, which essentially is the user needs to click down on the link, and then before they let go of their mouse, so the time between the mouse down and mouse up event is when the browser is prefetching the resources for that link.

So if the user clicks down on the link, we’re very confident that they’re actually going to navigate. Although it is possible to drag away and not navigate. 90% of users are going to follow that link or more. And so the idea is not to waste prefetching for links that users never visit.

However it is possible to configure this API in a more bold manner where it will, for example, prefetch links that you hover over, which is going to give you much more of a head start, but also a lower hit ratio where, you know, some people will hover over links and they never click on them. So it depends on your use case.

So I’ve already seen, so we landed the API in WordPress at the very conservative level. There’s already a plugin out that lets users configure that API for their own site, so they can adjust the default settings.

There’s another setting that’s even more aggressive where it actually pre-renders the page. And in that setting, it’s almost as if you’ve loaded the page you’re about to navigate to in another tab, and when you click the link, it’s like switching tabs. It’s an instantaneous transition. It’s like amazing.

However, you know, if you’re pre-rendering every page a user hovers over, that’s going to be a huge additional load on your server. So there is a trade off there. But maybe you have like a large call to action button on your homepage that 50% of your users are going to click on. Go ahead and prefetch that. They’re going to get a better experience. You’re going to get a better conversion rate if that page loads faster.

[00:24:45] Nathan Wrigley: if memory serves, this is a browser API, Speculation Rules API and everybody’s got it switched on in 6.8 and beyond. But it’s in conservative, and it’s prefetch not pre-render, it’s click. And honestly, the chances of you not wishing to get to that page are pretty, like you say, you could slide away. But yeah, if you were to download the speculation rules, I can’t remember what the name of the plugin is. Anyway, the plugin, the option there is to do things like pre-render, or hover. And then, yeah. You could get into a real mess with the server and, you know, just wasteful.

[00:25:23] Adam Silverstein: Yeah. If you, especially if you’re on like a light end server, but maybe you want that, like the most important. Like, let’s say you have an e-commerce store and you’re really trying to get people to add things to your cart. You know, there’s all kinds of studies that show that if your pages load faster, and it’s even buy like things like a hundred milliseconds, the conversion ratio is much higher. People are quick to abandon slow sites. I mean, there’s all kinds of data on that.

So you may decide it’s worth investing the additional resources and dedicated hosting and caching so that you can prefetch and pre-render and get that faster navigation. This API enables that type of navigation that is, you really can’t get that without this API because it’s basically letting the browser know, it’s okay to like start loading resources before I even visit a page.

[00:26:06] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I keep having this thought that at some point Chrome’s going to come up with, it’s going to know a whole year in advance all pages that I wish to visit and just load them all for me.

[00:26:15] Adam Silverstein: Well, I did actually an experiment with AI to see, like ask AI which link is the user most likely to click on? And I tried it both with just literally dropping the HTML of the webpage in the AI, as well as drawing a screenshot. And I tried it on a very simple page, so like a WordPress plugin page. There’s a large blue button that says download. Probably the most likely link that users will click on. But the AI was like very good at identifying that. So in theory you could imagine that the browser could actually predict into some degree what users, based on their behavior, are going to click on, or based on the layout of the site.

[00:26:50] Nathan Wrigley: So this is a, curious new world in which we live, isn’t it? So there could be heuristics about what I’m literally doing with the mouse. So the mouse is, I don’t know, approaching a button. That’s a fairly strong indication. And also, I guess the speed.

[00:27:05] Adam Silverstein: Yeah, if it’s paused over the button.

[00:27:07] Nathan Wrigley: Right, or slowing down, the speed is sort of coming to a terminus. Yeah. This is all really interesting.

The 6.8, the Speculative Loading in 6.8, what I really like about that is that there’s zero configuration. It just works. So it’s using this fabulous new feature of the browser, but also no technical knowledge whatsoever. Absolutely none. And it would hopefully just save you a bunch of, well, your visitors a bunch of time.

[00:27:33] Adam Silverstein: Exactly.

[00:27:34] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Fabulous. Okay, that’s another one. Any others?

[00:27:37] Adam Silverstein: Oh my gosh, so many. We did touch briefly on CSS carousels, but let’s just cover that again. So over half of WordPress websites load some sort of slider or JavaScript library.

[00:27:49] Nathan Wrigley: Like them or hate them, they’re there.

[00:27:49] Adam Silverstein: Yes. And even if people don’t use them, they seem to load them because I don’t know if half of sites all have sliders, but in any case, this is a very popular feature for WordPress sites. And of course there’s many plugins out there that do this, and they all rely on a JavaScript library. There are several very popular ones. They’re very full featured libraries. They do all the things that you need for a carousel.

Now we can do that with CSS, so you don’t need the JavaScript library. Now, there may be advanced features that the JavaScript libraries will be able to do that will add some functionality. But the goal of the CSS implementation is to basically be feature parity with what you can do now with JavaScript. So all kinds of carousels

with buttons that you can click, with little indicators as to which slider, which image you’re on. You know, just all the features that you can imagine in a carousel. There’s a great demo site on the chrome.dev site of just like a zillion different carousels.

[00:28:41] Nathan Wrigley: What does the DOM look like for that?

[00:28:43] Adam Silverstein: It’s so simple. It’s like you have the images themselves, and you have a couple of pseudo elements like scroll marker, and there’s some for the scroll arrows. I don’t actually remember all the deals because I haven’t built one. But it’s all done using like CSS selectors essentially to indicate which elements are the control elements, and which elements are the target elements. And you can even do things like grouping them so that like when you hit the right arrow, it’s like a page of things moving back and forth, like several elements.

Like I said, they’ve tried to address all of the features. And again, here you would be able to do a CSS based carousel, that means no JavaScript required, right? You don’t need to load that giant JavaScript library. It’s going to be immediately available, right? So JavaScript takes some time to load. It’s going to work more quickly. And it’s also hopefully going to have accessibility built in. So you don’t have to worry about if your JavaScript library is keeping up with accessibility standards. It’s going to be a standard web component.

[00:29:36] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, okay. Of course. Yeah, if everybody’s implementing the same thing, it’s not this weirdy JavaScript thing that you downloaded from somewhere.

And okay, another question about, just sticking on that one for a moment. Will that be performant in the sense of, I don’t know, if I’ve got a carousel of 15 images, will the 15th one be loading at the moment.

[00:29:56] Adam Silverstein: Lazy loaded?

[00:29:57] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, exactly.

[00:29:57] Adam Silverstein: You would hope so, yes. I mean, I think in general it will be more performant than a JavaScript implementation. Unless the JavaScript implementation is doing some magic that the browser’s not aware of, like lazy loading. I think that is, will be built in. But you, again, don’t have that JavaScript running on the main thread doing the actual animations. All the animations are CSS animations.

[00:30:16] Nathan Wrigley: It’s kind of curious because that example, I’ve always liked how they look but I’ve always been persuaded that it’s the wrong thing to implement because of the JavaScript bloat, the inaccessibility. So they kind of went into that pariah status for a while. But if done right, there’s absolutely no reason not to implement it.

[00:30:36] Adam Silverstein: Yeah. And I think, you know, like you said, clients love them, they’re very popular. I think one of the arguments that I’ve heard about them is that data shows that most users never navigate beyond like the second image. So there is sort of questionable value there, especially if you’ve got one that say has 30 images in it on your homepage. Maybe that’s not such a great idea.

But maybe if you have three products that you want to feature at the top and you don’t know how to feature them all, a slider is a good way to have three things that the user can see all in the same space. So I think they have their uses, but I think there is the sort of resistance to using them from developers is based on solid data.

[00:31:09] Nathan Wrigley: It’s interesting as well because given, I don’t know the, bad reputation they have, it’s kind curious that that got made.

[00:31:16] Adam Silverstein: Right. So this actually brings us to a good point. Where do the browser vendors come up? Why are they building these things right? So the reason they decided to build CSS Carousel is this is an area that developers have struggled with.

Like I said, there are several libraries that are well established that have built really good sliders, but that’s taken a long time, right? And they still have accessibility challenges.

This is something that a lot of developers want to build, their clients are demanding it, and they’ve typically struggled to actually build something quality. So this is the impetus for a lot of these features that I talked about is places that developers are struggling. And that Interop project that I mentioned earlier, that’s where developers can give their feedback to the browser vendors about which features they feel are lacking.

That was the sort of like the last question of my talk was to developers, what are you struggling, what are you constantly using JavaScript for? What are you finding that’s still incompatible between browsers? Because I think that’s actually really important to get feedback from developers. The browser builders are in a room somewhere, they’re doing their thing. You know, they’re not out here building WordPress websites, so they’re not building Gutenberg. So we as developers have a responsibility to give feedback to the actual browser vendors so they know what we need, what we’re struggling with.

[00:32:27] Nathan Wrigley: You may not know the answer to this question, but does Chrome in a default setup where I install Chrome and then just click yes, yes, yes to everything that I’m asked. Does it provide heuristics back to Google about things like that? There’s millions of people interacting with carousels, for example.

[00:32:44] Adam Silverstein: I’m going to say, well, going to say no because they’re, Chrome does collect data, but you have to opt in. By default, you would not have that box checked.

[00:32:51] Nathan Wrigley: But it is possible.

[00:32:52] Adam Silverstein: Yes. And many people do. Many people do provide that. And most of that data is available publicly. So that data is anonymised and then made available publicly as part of the CrUX, the Chrome user experience data set. And that’s an open public data set that you can query using BigQuery. If you have a website or a product that’s very popular, you can get amazing data about how many sites are using it, about the performance of those sites, about growth over time. There’s all kinds of data out there.

Of course, again, it’s a subset of the web. It’s not every website on the web because there’s a privacy concern about this data. So the only data that’s reported is when the pages or sites have enough visitors that you couldn’t track back to individual users. So it is a limited data set. Small sites with low traffic won’t appear in it. However, it’s incredibly valuable. And if you build a popular plugin, for example, this is a great way for you to gather data about how your plugin is being used, because some of the sites that install it will be in that data set and it’s public data.

[00:33:51] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I’ll put a link to that in the show notes. That’s CrUX. CrUX. So that’s interesting. So there’s two routes there. There’s the heuristics provided by the browser if you opt in, but also it sounds to me like there are open channels communicating through people like you, if you’re a developer.

[00:34:04] Adam Silverstein: Like me, or like the Interop process that I mentioned earlier, where they open up a GitHub repo each year and you can just open an issue saying, here are the things that we’re struggling with. And I mentioned like Gutenberg actually did that.

For a couple years I was posting on the WordPress blog, hey, Interop is open, let’s give feedback. We did have one, at least one year where the Gutenberg team went in and made a long list of things that where they found incompatibilities. And some of those made their way into actual interrupt tasks. So it is incredibly valuable to give that feedback. And the browsers want to know, they want to build products that developers like to use.

[00:34:36] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. next, if there is a next.

[00:34:38] Adam Silverstein: Oh yes. Okay, so now we’re getting into, I think I hopped around a little bit, but the next section was about improving user experience. So the first one is actually a really simple one that I think is really cool. It’s customisable select.

[00:34:49] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, so good.

[00:34:50] Adam Silverstein: Yes. So the select element traditionally has been rendered by the operating system. And that means, so if you have a select list, like a dropdown, you’re going to see a bunch of words and you’re going to be able to scroll through those. But if you want to make it more visual, say add some images or icons next to each word, you really couldn’t do that. If you wanted to do that, you’d reach for a JavaScript library that would render the select element graphically, but wasn’t really a select element.

So this is the ability to actually put HTML inside your select elements. So a great example of that is icons and images in the dropdown. So, for example, I gave a lot of different examples of how we can use this in WordPress Core, but one is in the media library where we filter by media type. We can add like nice little icons. So if you’re looking for, you know, the videos, you get a nice little video icon. It just makes it easier for users to find what they’re looking for.

And again, this is still a semantic select element, so it’s going to be accessible just like a regular select element. If the browser doesn’t support this feature, it’s just going to fall back to a regular select element.

It’s also going to autofill correctly, right? So another example I gave was a currency selector that adds flags for the country of the currency. A nice, helpful thing. If your browser knows that you use the Euro, it’s going to select the Euro because autofill is this great technology that helps us select things that we always select. But if it’s a JavaScript do hickey, the browser has no idea what’s going on inside there, so autofill will not work correctly. So it has some real key advantages over traditional, you know, the way we would build these before. Now we can just do full on HTML select elements.

[00:36:21] Nathan Wrigley: It’s the kind of thing that once you’ve seen it, it’s like, why.

[00:36:25] Adam Silverstein: Why didn’t that exist before?

[00:36:27] Nathan Wrigley: Because we just have the OS. It just looks like an OS selector. So on my Mac, it looks like a Mac. On my phone, it looks like Android, whatever that would be. Which leads me to that actually. So on the phone, same experience because it’s not stepping outside of the browser. if I’ve got those flags, for example, or I’ve got coloured backgrounds or rounded corners or whatever it may be, Because it’s not reaching out to the OS to create this select, it’ll work on any device.

[00:36:53] Adam Silverstein: Right.

[00:36:54] Nathan Wrigley: Nice.

[00:36:54] Adam Silverstein: And it’s CSS controlled, right? So you could do a different mobile implementation than your desktop implementation.

[00:36:59] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I mean, it’s profoundly brilliant when you see. I’ll put some links to some demos somewhere into the shownotes.

[00:37:06] Adam Silverstein: You know, I’ve got several pull requests open both in Core and in Gutenberg to add these features into the select elements that we already have. It’s kind of a simple enhancement. And again, like if your browser doesn’t support it, you don’t really, there’s no harm, right? You don’t benefit from the feature, but you don’t lose anything either. I love that one. You know, I’m hoping that form plugins in our ecosystem will adopt it.

[00:37:25] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, no doubt. I mean, why wouldn’t you, basically? that’s a brilliant one. Thank you. Next.

[00:37:30] Adam Silverstein: Another one that, this one actually pairs really well with the Speculative Loading API and it’s called, the View Transitions API.

And this one is really cool because it basically turns your static website into a, kind of a fluid app-like experience. And in the slide deck, I have this great demo video of just a classic theme, where the users just clicking through to different pages. So you’re on say, the archive list and you’ve got a list of titles. And you click on a title and it’s going to take you to the single post page. And what happens is the browser actually navigates between those two states. So you see the title that you just clicked on, grow and expand, and it winds up in the position where it will be on the page you’re navigating to.

Same thing like with the featured image. Let’s say you have featured images and those appear in a list and you click on the featured image, the image will grow to where it’s going to be in the final position. So it creates a smooth animation between the different pages of your site, or states of a single page app.

And these are again, CSS animation, so you can control them. It has an auto mode where it picks the animation for you, so you really can do a very, just few lines, and get this effect working, but you can also customise it. So if you want the page to say scroll left when you hit the next button and scroll to the right when you hit the back button, you can implement it that way.

[00:38:45] Nathan Wrigley: So the place I’ve seen this before really is on mobile applications.

[00:38:48] Adam Silverstein: On apps. You see it on apps, right. Because it creates this fluid experience. We are used to on the web this idea of, you click on a link and then there’s kind of like a little bit of a wait. Then boom, there’s a refresh and the next page starts loading. And this kind of bridges that gap. It’s something that changes how users perceive your website. It doesn’t really change what’s loading. It’s the same before and after states. What it’s doing is creating that transition between the two states.

[00:39:12] Nathan Wrigley: It feels more like you’re on a journey as opposed to these little stops along the way to get to the final destination. It just creates this sort of fluid, endless experience. And I believe, I think I saw one of your colleagues, Felix Arntz, I believe he’s got a plugin, like a feature plugin out.

[00:39:30] Adam Silverstein: It is. It just shipped. It’s part of the Performance Lab plugin suite. So that is basically going to add a way for themes to just opt in. So we have a feature in WordPress where you can be, add themes support. And you can say, my theme supports this feature. So if themes opt in, they can just enable this API and just, you instantly get the navigations.

We fortunately benefit in Core from a lot of consistent naming for things. Like the class names on titles tend to be consistent among all the Core themes. And even in the ecosystem, a lot of people have stuck to those standards. And that makes it really straightforward to sort of choose the correct elements for the transitions.

Because part of setting this up is you sort of need to tell the browser, this is the title element. On the previous page, this is the title element on the next page. I want you to navigate between those two. And fortunately, at least for the Core themes, that’s pretty standard to do. So there is a pretty straightforward way to like implement it across all the core themes.

[00:40:23] Nathan Wrigley: I just want to remind the listener that, you may have got lost, we’re not talking about WordPress per se. We’re kind of talking about what the browser enables WordPress to do. So these view transitions, of course they can be implemented by a WordPress website, but it is in effect the browser that’s doing the hard work here.

You don’t have to be tied to WordPress, you could do this in HTML and CSS if you so wish to do it. But it’s easy to imagine that this is some clever JavaScript thing that somebody’s implemented in WordPress. And it’s just not that. This is just happening inside the browser.

[00:40:53] Adam Silverstein: No, these are all browser features and, yeah, the talk is kind of like, how do they apply to WordPress? How WordPress use them?

[00:40:59] Nathan Wrigley: I can imagine a world in the future where this feature in particular will have been massively overused. You know, people will, like scrolling animations for the, you know, this grows and this shrinks, and let’s see how that’ll settle. But the implementations that I’ve seen are just magnificent. They give you that, I don’t know, I’m on my phone, I use a music app, and I go to the next song and somehow the little icon for that song grows in this nice fluid way. Things fade in and fade out. Text becomes bigger, and it’s all happening. And It just encapsulates the screen perfectly. It gives everything the perfect place. And instead of it being a moment where it all just changes, everything slides into place. And it just feels natural, and we’ve got it coming in the browser.

[00:41:39] Adam Silverstein: It is amazing. Yeah. It’s, a pretty cool feature.

[00:41:41] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Okay, next.

[00:41:42] Adam Silverstein: Okay. So I did talk about what you mentioned, we talked about modern images before. So I did talk a little bit about modern image formats, just a kind of love of mine. I honed in on. HDR imagery. So we all, most of us have smartphones these days that actually take high dynamic range images, right? Previously we had standard dynamic range, but now all of our phones take multiple exposures and combine those to create an HDR image.

We have long had the ability to save images in HDR with formats like AVIF, WebP supports it. However, the challenge comes when you upload those images to WordPress and then you try to use them on a standard definition monitor, an SDR monitor, right? So you’ve got an HDR image, but suddenly you’re displaying it on a monitor that can’t display HDR, and you have to sort of, re downsize it to that lower bit depth, and that degrades the image greatly.

So there is a new format available that’s ISO standard, and it’s called Ultra HDR. And this is a combination of standard jpeg SDR imagery with a gain map metadata layer. So it’s a single image format that includes both the SDR data as well as the data required to render the HDR version of the image. So it’s a full HDR image when you view it on a monitor that can support it, but on a monitor that doesn’t support it, you can just use the SDR image, you don’t need to do some conversion to try to create that alternate image.

[00:43:09] Nathan Wrigley: I’ve never heard of this, so I’m going to try and parse it in real time. Let’s see how this works. So I’m imagining an image and I’m imagining like a CSS gradient over the top, There’s a bit of metadata which does something. The underlying image is unchanged, but there’s something gone over the top.

[00:43:25] Adam Silverstein: Yes, it’s called a gain map.

[00:43:27] Nathan Wrigley: Right, so gain mapping. And I can put that on, put that off. So it’s metadata transforming the image, but the image is the same.

[00:43:33] Adam Silverstein: Yes.

[00:43:35] Nathan Wrigley: Interesting.

[00:43:35] Adam Silverstein: Yes. So I am a programmer and I deeply know about how WordPress media works, but I am not a photographer. However, there have been some great contributions from photographers who really know this space well. And they’ve come in and helped us on the media team really understand the challenges of handling these types of images and publishing them to the web, right?

So I have a link in the slide to one of those guys and his photography website. He’s a software developer and a photographer. And he’s got like those sliders you can kind of see before and after and see what the difference is between SDR and HDR imagery. And you realise, oh my God, HDR images are amazing. So the point of this feature, or the thing that I’m talking about is to try to let people actually be able to use HDR images on their WordPress websites.

[00:44:17] Nathan Wrigley: That’s fascinating. So a metadata layer living on top of an image, which visibly transforms it, but not just to add, I don’t know, to change the hue or the tint of it, to render a better image of a higher quality. Gosh that’s fascinating.

[00:44:32] Adam Silverstein: Yep. So the challenge we have in WordPress is the ability to process these images. So in WordPress, when you upload an image, it goes to the backend, to the web server, and then we process it, we convert it to various sizes for different display sizes. So you get a different image when you’re browsing the site on a mobile or a desktop or a high definition screen. We have all different sizes, and themes can add sizes.

And all of that image processing happens using a couple of image processing libraries. GD and Imagick are the two that we support natively. Those libraries do not support the latest format, so Ultra HDR was maybe just added to Imagick. It will take years before that library, the new version of the library is actually available to WordPress sites. So even a format like AVIF that’s been around for quite a while now, is only supported by 30% of WordPress servers. So only 30% of WordPress sites can actually upload AVIFs and get the full, you know, various sizes that they need.

So that’s a limitation of the architecture of WordPress. And one of the next features that I talked about is something that will help us leapfrog that limitation. Browser based image processing. Exactly right. So what I’m talking about here is WebAssembly.

So WebAssembly is the ability to run code that was written in another language like C or C++, that targeted a machine language, is meant to be run natively on the hardware. So that, for example, these image processing libraries, and also newer image processing libraries, can be run directly in the browser.

And what this gives us the ability to do is ship the latest version of the image library directly with WordPress. We no longer have to rely on hosts doing the messy and difficult process of upgrading servers, very challenging thing for hosts to do, to get the latest version of the Imagick library. We can just ship that library directly in the browser. And that gives us the ability to make every WordPress site support AVIF, and it also gives us the ability to do things we simply can’t do today on the backend.

A good example of that is converting gif or gifs to movies, right? This is a common performance recommendation. Gifs are very heavy. You convert them to a native video element and they behave just the same for users, but they’re much lighter because the compression is so much smarter. Can’t do that in WordPress right now. Neither of the image libraries support that ability. But there are image processing libraries that handle this, and we can run those directly in the browser.

[00:46:52] Nathan Wrigley: Let me see if I’ve got this right. So in this world of the future, it’ll be possible, let’s say in the block editor, I drag in a, I don’t know, a jpeg or something, but I could convert that on the fly to an AVIF for example.

[00:47:05] Adam Silverstein: Yes. Even if your server didn’t support AVIF.

[00:47:06] Nathan Wrigley: Even if. So it’s literally in the browser.

[00:47:09] Adam Silverstein: Yes

[00:47:09] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. First thing is that quick.

[00:47:11] Adam Silverstein: Well, okay, so it’s not quick on the backend either, right? But it is asynchronous, so you can continue working on your post while it’s happening.

[00:47:18] Nathan Wrigley: Right. So you wouldn’t necessarily see anything.

[00:47:20] Adam Silverstein: Right. You would that it was processing. And of course it would depend on how large your image is, how many subsized images you’re creating. But no, it’s not fast. It’s a slow process, but it’s a one time thing each time you upload an image.

[00:47:31] Nathan Wrigley: That was next question. It’s a one time thing. So the movie thing that you just described, where you got the gif to a movie, again, a one-time thing?

[00:47:38] Adam Silverstein: Yes.

[00:47:39] Nathan Wrigley: So we upload it. In the background, asynchronously, it’s converting it, and then at some point it gets saved, I guess as a .mov file or something like that? inside the media library?

[00:47:50] Adam Silverstein: And this is actually not some future technology you’ll be able to use someday. You can use this today by installing Pascal’s Media Experiments plugin. So my colleague Pascal has swisspidy as his handle, people know him by that. But he’s got the Media Experiments plugin, and that will let you do all these things that I’m talking about today. And it is experimental, so beta software, but, check it out because it really demonstrates what we can do.

There’s also a PR already open in Gutenberg with a whole roadmap for landing this feature. It is already sort of an experimental feature in Gutenberg. So if you install the Gutenberg plugin and you go into experiments, you can actually enable this feature. I don’t think it has all of the things that he has in the plugin, but it has sort of the additional framework for it.

[00:48:28] Nathan Wrigley: If I were, well, I am fairly non-technical, this is the kind of stuff I expect, I think. You just drag an image from any device of any kind into the editor, whatever that editor interface is be it Gutenberg or, you know, whatever. It should just handle that. You know, there shouldn’t be a proclivity for we prefer this thing or we prefer that thing. It should just do it and whatever output I want, I want it as an AVIF, I want it as a WebP. Okay. we’ll just transform it in the background. I know there’s a ton of technological milestones to be achieved and overcome with that, but that is, I think, the expectation. The web should just work like that. Everything should convert and be easy, and drag and droppable and, yeah.

[00:49:10] Adam Silverstein: Yeah, and famously, several years ago, Apple started storing images in the HEIC format, which is a better compression than jpeg. However, it’s not a web safe format. I think Safari is the only browser that supports it. So when we upload HEICs to WordPress now, we do convert them to jpegs for users.

However, that only happens if your server supports HEIC images. Again, we rely on the server libraries, and that statistic is very similar to AVIF. It’s about 30% of sites. Fortunately Apple does automatically convert them if you upload them from your phone. But people do get into this problem where they wind up with HEIC images on their desktop and they’re trying to upload them to their WordPress, and then it will get rejected if your server doesn’t support it.

[00:49:50] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, this whole thing of, I’ve got images. It’s an image. Well, it’s in the wrong format. It’s an image.

[00:49:55] Adam Silverstein: Right? Why do I have to care?

[00:49:57] Nathan Wrigley: It shouldn’t matter. Yeah, okay. That’s a perfect example. Okay, so images, anything else?

[00:50:02] Adam Silverstein: The other one that I think is really cool that maybe people don’t know about is running AI directly in your browser. So there’s a great library called Transformers.js that lets you run a whole bunch of different models, kind of, it acts as an interface.

So just like the large language models that we have online, like Gemini and ChatGPT. You can actually run smaller versions of those directly in your browser. And some of the advantages of that are the data is private. There’s no API key required, or cost to you to use these. You can ship an AI directly with your product. So imagine you have a software, a plugin that is designed for company bulletin boards. You don’t really want that data going out to some remote API, but you’d like to give users a way to summarise the conversation from yesterday. A language model running in your browser is capable of doing that.

[00:50:49] Nathan Wrigley: Where does it live.

[00:50:50] Adam Silverstein: It runs in the memory of the browser and it gets downloaded in cache. So there is a large download when you first start using it to actually download the model. And then it’s cached, with the browser storage APIs.

[00:51:01] Nathan Wrigley: It’s persistent.

[00:51:03] Adam Silverstein: It’s persistent, yes.

[00:51:03] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. Switch the machine off, switch the machine on.

[00:51:05] Adam Silverstein: Yes. It’ll stay cached in your, browser. Browser has the ability to store files.

[00:51:08] Nathan Wrigley: I’m guessing the constraints around what it can do compared to, I don’t know, ChatGPT 4o or whatever is much more minimal.

[00:51:15] Adam Silverstein: Significant. Right. This is in the browser, you’re probably going to get the performance maybe that you got out of the models a year ago or a year and a half ago. Remember when.

[00:51:24] Nathan Wrigley: Oh not that bad then.

[00:51:25] Adam Silverstein: Yeah. Not that bad, right? And you can imagine that a year or two from now, they’re just going to get better. And there have been dramatic improvements, and even like new approaches to how they’re doing them. So they’re getting quite good. They’ll never be as good as the large language models that are running in the cloud that have abundant resources.

There’s also hybrid models, right, where you use the local version when that’s all you have available, your offline, say, for example. Or you have a more complex query, then it can go to the cloud. There’s different ways of approaching that. But you can build a hybrid system, but the point of, the ability to run it in the browser, is to actually be able to do everything locally, and not rely necessarily on a cloud provider.

[00:52:00] Nathan Wrigley: It really feels at the minute as if Google is in a big pivot towards AI.

[00:52:06] Adam Silverstein: Absolutely.

[00:52:07] Nathan Wrigley: In fact, it kind of feels like if you were to describe it as a race, it feels like Google is kind of nudging ahead at this moment in time. I just watched some of the bits and pieces from Google IO.

[00:52:16] Adam Silverstein: Yes. Really impressive.

[00:52:16] Nathan Wrigley: It was pretty profound in many respects. But also, can you constrain that AI? So for example, could I limit it to one, well, let’s say website? It can only be used and consumed by this thing. I don’t know if there would be a need for that. I’m just wondering, is it available to all the things or can you constrain it?

[00:52:35] Adam Silverstein: I mean, so there are actually aI things being built into the browser where you’ll get AI in the browser itself. But this is not really that, this is more like it’s running inside your app. So it would be constrained. And I see this as something that we’ll start to see like plugins, shipping AI with their plugin, and it doesn’t require you to have ChatGPT or some other service provider, it just has the AI built in.

Maybe it’s identifying objects in an image. Or maybe it’s reviewing comments as to whether they’re spam. So things like that where it’s a pretty straightforward AI capability, it works really well on these smaller models. And so that’s something that I could imagine would just be built into a plugin. You would add this AI feature, but it doesn’t require that you sign up for a ChatGPT account, and get an API key and install it. You know, there’s a lot of barriers, I guess, to using the cloud models.

[00:53:23] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I feel like you’ve left the most interest, well, not the most interesting, but the bomb is there. My head is kind of a bit taken by that one because I can really, I mean, everybody’s fascinated by AI, the possibilities of it. But it’s always an API key. It’s always a go off somewhere else. I mean, maybe it hasn’t been for people such as yourself, but I did not know that it was possible in the browser.

And if it’s only a year behind, honestly, the stuff that I want to do with it is give it a corpus of information and filter that a little bit and give me a summary of it. That’s what I’m using it for. I’m imagining that all of that would be possible in the browser at no monetary cost.

[00:53:59] Adam Silverstein: Exactly. Right. Because you’re doing the computing yourself on your own platform.

[00:54:03] Nathan Wrigley: And I would imagine, like I said, Google leaning into this, that’s only going to get more investment from them.

[00:54:10] Adam Silverstein: Yeah. I mean, there is, yes, there’s a lot of investment going on in AI right now, so it’s pretty exciting. Yeah, and I did have, you know, I did talk a little bit about just how AI is going to impact all of our workflows and stuff, but that’s not really in the, it was kind of an expansion because it’s not actually a web capability, per se.

[00:54:25] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. Well, I think maybe that’s the perfect place to end it. Unless you’ve got some cataclysmic thing which can trump that.

[00:54:30] Adam Silverstein: Nope. That was the end of talk. The last slide was really just asking for feedback from developers. So that would be my last thing to say is just, you know, try to give feedback. I’m always open. My DMs are open on WordPress Core Slack. And like I said, there’s the interop thing where you can actually open up a ticket.

[00:54:45] Nathan Wrigley: So, again, dear listener, just remember all of this, the browser is doing this. It sounds like it’s WordPress doing it, or it sounds like some other third party service. It’s not, it’s all in The browser and it’s fascinating. The browser is definitely more powerful today than it was yesterday. Adam Silverstein, thank you so much for chatting to me.

[00:55:02] Adam Silverstein: Yeah, thank you.

On the podcast today we have Adam Silverstein.

Adam is a WordPress Core committer, and works to fix bugs and improve modern web capabilities. He’s also a Developer Relations Engineer on Chrome’s Web Platform team at Google, and there he focuses on making the open web better for everyone.

Adam is here to break down how the rapid evolution of browser technology can supercharge your WordPress sites. We’re doing this by referencing his presentation at WordCamp Europe 2025, in which he covered multiple new features of browsers, which can be used by WordPress users to bring a variety of experiences to their websites.

In many cases, these are browser APIs and features, and are quietly rdefining what’s possible on the web. From CSS-powered popovers and scroll-driven animations to speculative loading that speeds up your page transitions. Adam explains how these advancements are changing what’s possible for both developers and end-users.

The conversation sheds light on the collaboration between browser vendors, Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Edge, through initiatives like Interop and Baseline, paving the way for more consistent and robust features across platforms.

Adam also talks about practical topics central to the WordPress community, like how the Popover API and native CSS carousels reduce JavaScript bloat, make sites more accessible, and deliver a better overall user experience.

He shares exciting new frontiers, such as browser-based image processing powered by WebAssembly, which is paving the way for universal support of modern formats like AVIF and Ultra HDR, and even running AI locally in your browser, no API key or cloud server required.

He provides concrete examples on how these technologies can be leveraged in WordPress via Core updates, canonical plugins, and Gutenberg experiments, with a special focus on how developers can get involved and offer feedback to help shape future web standards. Prepare to look at your browser in a whole new light, truly.

Whether you’re a theme designer, plugin developer, or site owner simply curious about what’s next, this episode is for you.

Useful links

Modernizing WordPress with new Web Platform Features – Adam’s presentation at WordCamp Europe 2025

Drupal

TYPO3

Descript

Popover API

Baseline

MDN docs

Interop

Scroll Animations API

Slider Revolution

Chrome Dev carousel demos

CrUX

BigQuery

Customisable Select demos

 Performance Lab plugin

Ultra HDR

GD

Imagick

WebAssembly

 Pascal Birchler’s Media Experiments plugin

 Transformers.js

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