In this podcast, Motley Fool contributors Tyler Crowe and Matt Frankel discuss:

• Taiwan Semiconductor's most recent earnings report.
• The torrid pace of AI spending.
• Lower mortgage rates are taking the cork off existing home sales and refinancing.
• Insulation contractor TopBuild now does roofs.
• Ferrero will acquire WK Kellogg.
• Two stocks worth watching this earnings season

To catch full episodes of all The Motley Fool's free podcasts, check out our podcast center. When you're ready to invest, check out this top 10 list of stocks to buy.

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A full transcript is below.

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This podcast was recorded on July 10, 2025.

Tyler Crowe: Taiwan Semiconductor's earnings say full steam ahead for AI, and the housing market is getting some of its best news in a while. You're listening to Motley Fool Money. Welcome to Motley Fool Money. I'm Tyler Crowe, and joining me today is Motley Fool analyst Matt Frankel. Matt, thanks for being here.

Matt Frankel: Thanks for having me. It's always fun to be on with you.

Tyler Crowe: We do a lot of conversations. Offline and doing one here is going to be great. On today's show, the snacking industry is actually coming for the breakfast aisle. The housing market saw its first green shoots in a while. There's merger talk in the building supply industry, and Matt and I are going to give some earnings watches for the upcoming quarter. But we're going to start today's show with Taiwan Semiconductors because they just released their second quarter or June earnings earlier today. Taiwan Semiconductor manufacturing's revenues rose about 39% in the quarter, and TSMC CEO C.C. Wei said that AI chip demand still, they think is outstripping the current supply that they have, and the company has pledged to spend $100 billion ramping up manufacturing. Now, Matt, I'm probably not alone in being flabbergasted, every time I hear a projection about spending and CapEx related to AI. NVIDIA just passed the four trillion dollar market cap threshold a couple days ago, and it's still hard to wrap my head around. I think the easy question is, will AI spend, continue to grow? I think that's a little too easy. I want to ask you, do you see AI CapEx spending continuing at this rate?

Matt Frankel: Well, a 40% year over year growth rate is only sustainable for so long. This is an acceleration. It's worth mentioning. Last year, in 2024, Taiwan Semi reported 30% year over year revenue growth. This is a pretty big acceleration after an already very strong year. I think over the past 30 years, Taiwan Semi's revenue's grown at about 18% annualized rate. It's really picked up in the past couple of years because of all this AI spending. This is a massive business, especially for one that doesn't make any of its own products. It makes products on behalf of other companies. All of their customers, just to mention some on their customer list, Apple is their biggest one. But they also make chips for NVIDIA, AMD, Broadcom, Tesla there are a lot of companies they make chips for on a third party basis, and these are deep pocketed companies that are all committing a lot of money to AI investment. When you ask will this continue if you're asking over the next five years, I could see that growth rate actually being sustained. But if you're asking beyond, at some point, we're going to hit a peak, but I don't think we're there just yet.

Tyler Crowe: The interesting thing is a lot of the companies I follow are like in the construction industry related to AI, like all the electrical supply contractors and the builders and things like that. Their backlogs for AI data centers and all that stuff is still growing at really large rates. Their remaining performance obligations, their word for backlogs, have been growing at similar rates, which is also, to me, a leading indicator for a lot of this because you got to build the data center before you can put any chips in it. Beyond the same thing, beyond the five years, it starts to get really murky because we're 40% for five years straight is a lot, but certainly over the next 2-3 year window, it doesn't seem unrealistic to continue to keep doing this.

Matt Frankel: One of the really good ways to get ahead of demand is to look at what the data center industry is doing, and I'm glad you brought up building for that reason because so many data centers are being built right now. There's a lot of if you look at, Digital Realty Trust or Equinix's, construction activity, there's a lot going on, and it creates like a forward looking projection, if you will, because, the company will order a new data center, start building it. At some point later, it's going to be filled with chips and things like that. That's a really good forward indicator of how demand is doing.

Tyler Crowe: Let's put the rubber of the road here really quick regarding Taiwan Semi. It's a recommendation in the Hidden Gems dividend service and several other molecule services. After seeing these results and the current valuation that we're looking at for Taiwan Semi, do you still see the stock as a buy?

Matt Frankel: Given how quickly its revenue is growing, it trades for about 24 times forward earnings, there's not a lot to dislike about this company. That 1.2 trillion dollar valuation sounds high, but it really isn't when you look at how the business is doing.

Tyler Crowe: If we're looking at these numbers for 2, 3, 4 years, a company can grow into a 26 times forward earnings valuation or forward earnings valuation pretty quick. It's hard to see it being an awful investment from here at current valuations. Next up, mortgage rates are on the decline, and the housing market is responding quick.

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Tyler Crowe: The housing market has been looking for something, anything resembling good news lately. Finally, it got a little bit. The average rate for a 30 year mortgage in the United States has declined five weeks in a row, and it's now down to 6.77%. Now, that certainly isn't the sub 3% mortgages that we saw in the 2021 period, but it is a nice improvement from the greater than 7% mortgage rates we've seen so far this year, and I know I have been like mortgage rate shopping for quite some time. Matt, the housing market appears to be taking advantage of this situation much faster than we've seen other mortgage rate movements lately, and something you've been following is like housing volume is really picking up because of this.

Matt Frankel: You mentioned the other mortgage rate moves. This isn't the first time we've seen mortgage rates cool off from the highs, which is why this move is a surprise to a lot of people. Mortgage rates peaked at about 8% when inflation was really high. But even they've come down a little bit, then they go up, then they come down, they go up, and they have oscillated between 7.5% and like six and three quarters in recent times. All the other times it's happened, this is a key difference. All the other times it's happened, there hasn't been a lot of housing inventory. Now that's changed. There's a lot more inventory on the market with this decline. People who want to buy houses are taking advantage, just to name some of the statistics just last week alone, week over week, application volume was up more than 9%. Refinancing is 56% higher than it was a year ago. People who got mortgages in the 8% range are finding it valuable to refinance right now. Purchase applications are up 25% year over year on a seasonally adjusted basis. The numbers really look surprisingly strong, given that, you know, over the past week, the average mortgage rates down two basis points. It's not like it's been a sharp decline in the past week, but now buyers are suddenly coming into the market.

Tyler Crowe: Following the housing move for the past couple of years, it's been trying to poke somebody a stick and say, Come on, do something and it's funny to actually see it finally happening. Part of me wonders if it's a little bit mortgage and also our mortgage rates, excuse me, and a little bit of just like the people have been putting it off and using this as that time to start taking the lid off, especially with the buying season here in the spring and summer. Now, you and I and a couple other people, longtime Motley Fool contributors, analysts. We spend way too much time talking about housing, investing in housing, investing in real estate. There's some side channels that get a little unhinged. But with mortgage rates are declining, the probability of a rate cut actually looks to be in sight something that I have been hesitant to say for quite some time. There is pent up demand for homes. Matt, with this backdrop, what stocks in this particular market look interesting to you?

Matt Frankel: I've been saying the Home Builders forever, and so have you, but it's really tough to gauge the dynamics of Home Builders when existing homes are becoming more appealing than they had been for a long time. I won't say that. I'm really looking at rocket right now, RKT the largest lender. They're a very profitable company. I think refinancing in particular is a big opportunity. I mentioned refinancings up 56% year over year, and that's because rates fell to 6.77%. Imagine if rates fall to 6% or 5% in the next couple of years, Americans are sitting on $35 trillion in home equity that's the most ever, and a lot of it's just waiting to be tapped. A lot of people want to do big projects, but won't because it's expensive.

Tyler Crowe: Actually, the Refi number was the one that really stood out to me, as well. I didn't go to the mortgage originators, like Rocket. I actually went to the home repair and remodel industry because, again, this is everyone stared at their walls in 2020, 2021, did all those projects, and now it's been like three or four years. Everyone's starting to get that itch to do projects again and lower mortgage rates. A refinancing is a good opportunity to that. I've been looking at companies like Home Depot that have underperformed just about the time the interest rates started to climb a few years ago, we had that big pull forward in remodel activity and things like that. Home Depot and a lot of other building supply companies, and one company in particular is TopBuild. It's an insulation distribution and installation contractor specifically for insulation. That company just so happens to be the company we're going to be talking about next. Continuing on our theme of the housing market, home repair, building products, there's a company Top bill. They just mentioned it as a distribution installation contractor. They recently announced it's going to acquire Progressive Roofing. Matt, can you just give a quick breakdown of what this deal looks like?

Matt Frankel: Progressive Roofing, as the name implies, they're one of the largest commercial roofing installers in the United States. They make about 70% of their money from what's called reroofing, which is people like me needing a new roof and maintenance and 30% from new construction homes, both of which can get pretty nice tailwinds, if the real estate market keeps going as it's going. The deal is it's $810 million in cash. It looks like a great deal for TopBuild if if the market heads in the right direction. That's about nine times progressives EBITA over the past 12 months. They expect there to be some synergies, like whenever you acquire two businesses that have some overlap, you can usually combine some operations and things like that and get some cost savings. It looks like a strong acquisition. They're going to have to take on debt to do it. TopBuild has about 300 million in cash right now. Another roughly half a billion dollars will need to come up with through debt, but they have a really healthy balance sheet, about 1.4 billion in debt with $11 billion market cap business and highly profitable. I like this deal. I think this is not the last consolidation we're going to see in the industry in 2025.

Tyler Crowe: We've seen some more splashy things when it comes to acquisitions here. Brad Jacobs of XPO Logistics and United Rentals and a bunch of other we'll call it the boring economy guy who rolls up companies is getting into building supplies with QXO. It seems to be a hot activity lately as mergers acquisitions roll ups in this industry. TopBuild as I said, installation of insulation the real dirty work. Anybody that's done contracting work knows that insulation stinks as a job to do. But it's been a spectacular investment after it got spun out of Masco Corporation in 2015, several Motley Fool recommendation services. You and I have been following this company in this industry for quite a while. For TopBuild, much of its success has come from rolling up those small distributors and installation contractors across North America. It's been their calling card is going and buying out mom and pops who are maybe coming to the end of their time of wanting to run a business or some small regionals that success story of Bolt-on acquisitions. Now, roofing isn't insulation. Honestly, I'm a little anxious when a company makes an acquisition that is slightly tangential to what they're doing. Am I being a little too apprehensive here, because, I do tend to be a little bit more nervous than you.

Matt Frankel: Well, insulation and roofing are related parts of the building process. It's not like they're an insulation company, and they're acquiring a concrete manufacturer or something like that. It's a very related part of the business. But I do get your point. Some of the synergies I mentioned come from the fact that there's a lot of overlap in the processes. You generally don't put in a new roof without checking your insulation at the same time. There is a lot of overlap here. But no, I definitely get your point when companies start to step outside of their wheelhouse a little bit. It'll be worth watching, but it looks like the price is right, so they have some wiggle room to have a learning curve in there, if you will.

Tyler Crowe: I'm probably a little too nervous by nature, but I do have to admit, as I've looked at this deal, I think overall, we can talk about the business stuff. But more importantly, for me, I think management has developed enough of a track record that I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt right now or tie goes to the base runner, I guess, if you will. With the refinance market picking up so could activity in the roofing business along with installation. It might be a good time to be making this acquisition. Speaking of M&A, we're going to move on to our next store here, which is going from roofing to the breakfast aisle because that seems to be getting a hot market that also just happens to be getting a little bit sweeter. Earlier today, Ferrero Rocher or Ferrero International, the Italian private company has agreed to acquire WK Kellogg for about an enterprise value of 3.1 billion. WK Kellogg, of course, was the cereal business that was split out of Kellanova I believe it was either last year or a couple of years ago. It was a relatively recent split for the two companies where Kellanova wanted to focus on the snacking industry. WK Kellogg was going to take the cereals.

But Ferrero Rocher is very much a candy company, and it's interesting to see them going in this direction. It's about $23 per share for WK Kellogg in cash. About 31% premium Keeling's closing price today. Matt, what did you actually think about this deal? I know it's hard to really put a pin on private companies, especially an Italian one. We don't seem to have a lot of information on private Italian companies here in the US public markets. But we've seen tons of M&A activity and flirting with M&A activity. We saw Mondelez and Hershey talking about getting together early or late last year. Do you have any insights as to why you think there's so much talk and commotion in particular in the package food industry lately?

Matt Frankel: Well, in this particular case, there's a couple key takeaways. One is that Ferrero has been building out its US portfolio for some time. They acquired all of Nestle's US candy business a couple of years back, for example. You might have some of their products in your house right now and not know it. It's summertime. A lot of people keep those bomb popsicles in their fridge. That's a Ferrero product. They have a lot of brands that are very well known to Americans. Second, and this goes more to the broad package food industry that you were talking about. The definite trend is to not only diversify your product portfolio, but diversify it in a way toward healthier products. Now, I know a lot of Kellogg cereals, frosted flakes are not health food, but things like Kashi and raisin bran and rice krispies. We've seen a lot of the companies that specialize in sweets, like Coca-Cola, Pepsi, really diversifying to not necessarily health foods, but to more healthy brands that are that consumers seem to want more nowadays than their traditional products. I think it's a diversification maybe anticipate some changing tastes in the market to insulate themselves from being just a sweets company. That's a common trend that we've been seeing throughout the packaged food industry.

Tyler Crowe: Seems like it's an industry that has been struggling with debt, with trying to figure out a lot of what they're doing with their maybe some brands that are getting a little stale, trying to do some refreshes at the same time. For a lot of these snacking companies, really high cocoa prices haven't exactly helped them along the way when it comes to trying to make a lot of this work. A lot of dividend stalwarts have been really, I would say struggling to really grow the business, and we've seen it in their valuations of late. Honestly, with the package food company industry, I don't know if I'm that interested in any stocks right now, but it's certainly much more fascinating to watch with a lot of these portfolio reshufflings. Is there anyone in particular that is on your radar?

Matt Frankel: I honestly think Pepsi and Coca-Cola are the two standouts in the industry still and have done the best job of adapting to changing tastes over time out of all the package food companies. I'd probably give it to Pepsi because they have a lot more food than beverage.

Tyler Crowe: On our way out here, let's take a quick 30 seconds. Second quarter earnings is coming up. What are you watching?

Matt Frankel: Well, banks are the obvious answer just because they're reporting first, but they're also a really good proxy for just general consumer health. By looking at things like loan defaults, by looking at, trading volume trends, how volatile things have been there. There's a lot you can tell from bank earnings that have implications on pretty much every other company in the United States. That's really what I'm watching next week. Prologis is another company that reports early that we've talked about that is on my radar. They say they're nearing an inflection point. I want to see if we're there yet.

Tyler Crowe: This quarter, I'm actually going to be watching Home Depot for a lot of the reasons that we mentioned when we're talking about mortgage rates. Less for the actual earnings, but I really want to dive into the earnings transcript and see if some of this activity that we just talked about with Refi is translating into increased demand. If management thinks that this is a continuing trend or a little bit of a short term blip that we've been hoping would actually last longer than a couple of quarters here with the mortgage market. Matt, thank you so much for joining me today on Motley Fool Money. As always, people on the program have interest in the stocks they talk about and the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against, so don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. All personal finance content follows Motley Fool editorial standards and are not approved by advertisers. Advertisements or sponsored content are provided for informational purposes only. See our Fool advertising disclosure. Please check out our show notes. I'm Tyler Crowe. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

Matt Frankel has positions in Advanced Micro Devices, Digital Realty Trust, Prologis, and Shopify and has the following options: short January 2026 $135 calls on Shopify. Tyler Crowe has positions in Prologis. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Advanced Micro Devices, Digital Realty Trust, Equinix, Hershey, Home Depot, Nvidia, Prologis, Shopify, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing, Tesla, and TopBuild. The Motley Fool recommends Broadcom, Nestlé, WK Kellogg, and XPO and recommends the following options: long January 2026 $90 calls on Prologis. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.

In this podcast, Motley Fool host Anand Chokkavelu and contributors Jason Hall and Matt Frankel discuss:

• AI stocks in the data center space (including CoreWeave).
• Winners and losers in energy and solar from Trump's "big, beautiful bill."
• Ranking the intellectual property of Warner Bros. Discovery, Comcast, Disney, and Netflix.
• Prime Day and other made-up holidays.
• Stocks to watch.

And Dave Schaeffer, founder and CEO of Cogent Communications, talks with Motley Fool analysts Asit Sharma and Sanmeet Deo about how Cogent's deals with customers like Netflix and Meta Platforms work and what keeps him awake at night.

Where to invest $1,000 right now? Our analyst team just revealed what they believe are the 10 best stocks to buy right now. Learn More »

To catch full episodes of all The Motley Fool's free podcasts, check out our podcast center. When you're ready to invest, check out this top 10 list of stocks to buy.

A full transcript is below.

Where to invest $1,000 right now

When our analyst team has a stock tip, it can pay to listen. After all, Stock Advisor’s total average return is 1,053%* — a market-crushing outperformance compared to 180% for the S&P 500.

They just revealed what they believe are the 10 best stocks for investors to buy right now, available when you join Stock Advisor.

See the stocks »

*Stock Advisor returns as of July 14, 2025

This podcast was recorded on July 11, 2025.

Anand Chokkavelu: Yes, we're talking all kinds of stocks. This week's Motley Fool Money Radio Show starts now. It's the Motley Fool Money Radio Show. I'm Anand Chokkavelu. Joining me are two of my favorite fools, Jason Hall and Matt Frankel. Today, we'll talk about stock market winners and losers from the Big Beautiful Bill. We'll pit Superman versus the Hulk, and we'll of course debate stocks on our radar. But first, we'll discuss whether there's an AI opportunity in investing in data centers. Upstart data center company, CoreWeave, again made news this week this time for announcing the purchase of Core Scientific for $9 billion. This allows it to add infrastructure to consolidate vertically as it seeks to gain market share among AI and high performance computing customers. CoreWeave is just the tip of the data center iceberg. Matt, what categories of data center opportunities are out there?

Matt Frankel: First, you have hyper scalers. These are companies like AWS, Microsoft, Desha. They are companies that operate the large scale data centers. They offer computing and storage infrastructures to customers. As Anand put it, there's CoreWeave, which is one of the least understood recent IPOs that I know. [laughs] They rent out GPU data center infrastructures to customers. It's not always practical for companies to invest in all of NVIDIA's latest chips on their own, for example. That's really what they do. There's the REITs still, Digital Realty and Equinix are the two big ones. They own the data centers. CoreWeave is actually a big Digital Realty tenant. Then there's power generation. I know Jason's going to talk about this a little bit later in the show, but data centers consume a lot of power, and it's growing at an exponential pace. These chips that NVIDIA produces, they are power drains. Nuclear, especially, could be a big part of the solution, but solar and other renewables are also in there.

Jason Hall: We're definitely in the land grab phase of the infrastructure buildout for accelerated computing. I think accelerated computing is maybe a better description than just AI. We talk about the Cloud REIT large. As we see more of the companies involved start to monetize things like AI agents at scale. I think that's where these investments are going to pay off.

Anand Chokkavelu: Big question. Do any of these categories interest you all for investing?

Matt Frankel: Well, I'm well known as being the real estate guy at the Motley Fool, so it shouldn't be a big surprise, but Digital Realty is my second largest and my second longest running REIT investment in my portfolio. I'm an Amazon shareholder, and I know that's not their only business, but AWS is the primary reason I own it. I don't own CoreWeave yet, and I think the stock is a little bit pricey, to say the least. But the more I read about it, the more I'm intrigued by the company. As I mentioned, they're a big tenant of Digital Realty, so I have some exposure already.

Jason Hall: The things about CoreWeave that concern me is the stock is definitely expensive. But if the opportunity is even close to as large as we think, it could still work out, but they're going to need a lot of money to pay for what they're trying to do and depending on how much of that is from raising debt versus secondary offerings of shares, there's still a lot of questions there. But, Anand, you've given me a chance to talk about Brookfield here. [laughs] How do I not take that opportunity? But I do think that there's a couple of Brookfield entities that are positioned really well here. I want to talk about the providing the energy part of it. Brookfield Renewable is really in the driver seat here as a global provider of renewable energy on multi decade contracts. It is not just accelerated computing, it's the energy transition REIT large. We've already seen it strike big deals with Microsoft and others to provide renewable power on those multi decade contracts. The dividend is really attractive, too. BEP, that's the partnership, yields over 5%. The corporate shares BEPC, it yields about 4.5%. Since mid 2020, that's when Brookfield Renewable rolled the corporation part out and restructured its dividend. The payouts been increased almost 30%. There's a lot to like here. Beyond the yield, I think it's primed to be a total return dynamo over the next decade. If you don't want to own a company that's in the energy part, you want to own the infrastructure, just take a look at sister company Brookfield Infrastructure. The tickers there are BIP and BIPC.

Anand Chokkavelu: Of course, these aren't the only AI stocks out there. Hi, NVIDIA. Do any other areas of AI interest you guys?

Matt Frankel: I love that. You can't talk about AI and data centers without talking about the chipmakers. NVIDIA just hit $4 trillion today as the day we're recording this. NVIDIA is an amazing business, and it has more room to grow than people think just in the data center accelerator space, which is why they're getting so much attention for good reason. The market size is expected to roughly double over the next five years. That's not even to mention the opportunities they have in chips for autonomous vehicles, chips for gaming and more but I prefer AMD, which is often referred to as NVIDIA junior, but I don't think it should be. It's an incredibly well run company that's been a mistake to bet against in the past. As Intel found out the hard way, just having a dominant market share in an area of chip making is not always enough.

Jason Hall: An area of the market that I think could do really well some of the legacy enterprise software giants. I think there may be underappreciated winners from AI. I'll use Salesforce, ticker CRM as an example. It's really starting to get traction with things like it's data cloud and with AI agents. It's starting to sell. We're seeing really rapid uptake of those things and monetization. It has a benefit, an advantage over a lot of these AI start-ups that are just pure AI businesses. It's already a trusted integrated partner with hundreds of thousands of enterprises. It knows their business, it knows their challenges, regulations, opportunities and that credibility, I think, is an edge that we don't give enough credit to. We shouldn't underestimate switching costs, I guess, is what I'm really getting at. You look at Salesforce rates for about 21 times free cash flow and less than seven times sales. That's a really good opportunity. I think it equates to double digit returns if it can just grow revenue around 8-12% a year over the long term, which I think it can.

Anand Chokkavelu: We started to talk a bit about energy and the need for it with all this AI. Let's talk about the energy industry implications of the Big Beautiful Bill, which was signed into law last week. Jason, can you give us the summary of the energy portions?

Jason Hall: Summarizing anything's hard for me, but I'll try. I think the short version is the incentives for renewables, they're getting gutted, really. There's a 30% investment tax credit or ITC for short. The residential solar and battery systems portion of that had been in place to run through 2032 before gradually declining for a few years after that. That now expires. The systems have to be fully installed and commissioned by the end of this year. The commercial ITC for solar and wind projects was on a similar track, but now it expires at the end of 2027, but those projects must begin construction by July 4th of 2026 to qualify for that 30% tax credit. It also terminates the tax credit for new and used EVs, $7,500 for a new EV and up to 4,000 for a used EV. The purchase has to happen before September 30th of this year, so a couple of months. Lastly, it ends the US regulatory credits around vehicle emissions that automakers buy largely from Tesla. This is a significant and profitable revenue stream for EV makers that essentially is going away.

Matt Frankel: Jason, when you say renewables are being gutted, you're essentially referring to solar and wind, if I'm not mistaken. It's not gutting anything for nuclear power, correct?

Jason Hall: That's correct. These things you get are the pure renewables as we think of them.

Anand Chokkavelu: Let's put a fine point on this with specifics. Who are the relative winners and losers, Jason?

Jason Hall: This could be an hour long show, but I'll try to summarize it here. Thinking about the companies that are most directly affected, I think Canadian Solar, which is a large manufacturer of solar panels and energy storage, and they really largely target the utility market, but also residential is definitely a loser here. In the near term Sunrun, its business model is tied to these tax credits as an installer and to some degree, First Solar is also going to be affected. I don't think there's really any winners out of this when it comes to solar. But I think Enphase is probably still in a better position in the market may believe. Maybe First Solar as well. It's been through these battles before, and it has been a winner over the long term. If you look at wind, GE Vernova has been on a huge run. I love that business, but I don't love the stock right now. Tesla, I think maybe one of the bigger losers that investors haven't really considered. Last fiscal year, it earned 2.76 billion in revenue from regulatory credits. That's largely pure profit. Then there's also the loss of those EV tax credits for buyers. That might be offset from some incentives for US made autos that are part of the bill now that were part of the law, but I think this puts Tesla in a tougher spot. The tailwinds are not favorable for fossil fuels before this. This doesn't really change any of that. There's opportunities there, but not because of the law.

Matt Frankel: The reason I asked about nuclear a minute ago is because that's really what I see as the big winner here. I like some of the nuclear focused utility providers. Constellation Energy is one that comes to mind. One of their stated goals is to have the largest carbon free nuclear power fleet in the US by 2040. Jacob Solutions, they provide consulting and design services to the industry. Ticker symbol is J, so it's really easy to remember. They recently had some really big nuclear contract wins. I'm going to push back on Jason's Tesla as a big loser. One, they're American made cars. They qualify for that new auto loan interest deduction, so that could help offset what they're losing from the EV tax credits. They have a big energy storage business, and AI has not only giant power demands, but very variable power demands, and it's going to create a lot of need for large scale energy storage, and Tesla does that. I think they're worth watching.

Jason Hall: That's the one part of Tesla's business that's done extraordinarily well. Over the past few years, as the EV business has weakened, is that the battery business.

Anand Chokkavelu: Now quickly the big question, is solar still investable, Jason?

Jason Hall: I think so. We have a very US centric view, obviously, and the US is a massive important market for solar. But you look around the world and the regulatory environment is still largely favorable. I think if you're willing to write out plenty of volatility, that global opportunity is still really good. Businesses like Enphase, businesses like First Solar that have been through these battles before, and even a Canadian Solar, where it has a ton of projects that it's been funding to build on its books that the math just got changed for them in some big ways. The valuation is so cheap that I think that there's some opportunity there.

Matt Frankel: Taking a step back, the reason you have incentives for solar energy, for EVs, for all this, is because without them, they're not price competitive with the existing technologies. The gap has narrowed significantly, especially in solar over the past say 10 years as to the efficiency of the products themselves and just how much they cost. Eventually, solar is going to be able to stand on its own without incentives. But like Jason said, you have to be able to write out some volatility because that could be five years, that could be 10 years, that could be 20 years so eventually, it won't matter.

Anand Chokkavelu: After the break, we'll move from solar to something else that gets its power from the yellow sun. Stay right here. This is Motley Fool Money.

Welcome back to Motley Fool Money. I'm Anand Chokkavelu, here with Jason Hall and Matt Frankel. One of our Brothers Discovery's much anticipated latest reboot of Superman hits theaters on Friday. Hoping the Justice League can one day catch Disney's Marvel cinematic universe and hot on the heels of last week's Jurassic World Rebirth from Comcast. In honor of Summer movies, we're going to rank those three companies based on the value of their intellectual property. We'll throw in Netflix for good measure. Its headline this week was stating that half of its global audience now watches anime. Chokkavelu household certainly does with one piece. My kids have gotten me into it. For those unfamiliar, they have more episodes than the Simpsons. Matt, once again, your four choices are Warner Brothers Discovery. That includes the DC Universe, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Harry Potter, the Matrix, Looney Tunes, all our favorite HBO shows. You got Comcast with Shrek, Minions, Kung Fu Panda. You got Disney with Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar and Mickey Mouse. Finally, you got Netflix with things like Stranger Things, Bridgerton, Squid Game, newer Adam Sandler movies, and tons of niche content. Mentioned anime, you could argue whether that's niche content or not at this point. Whose intellectual property do you most value, Matt?

Matt Frankel: See, I said Disney. All four of these have excellent intellectual property, and I'll give you a more elaborate description there. In my household, you mentioned your household, how you have all these streaming things. We have a streaming service from all four of these. We have the Peacock service, which is a comcast product. We have HBO Max, which is a Warner Brothers discovery product. We have Disney Plus, and we have Netflix. Disney Plus also has Hulu attached to it. I ask myself, which is the least dispensable? I could cancel all the other ones before I'd be allowed to cancel Disney Plus for the other members of my household. Their film franchises are beyond compare. They have a much longer history of building intellectual property than all of these, especially in terms of valuables. Mickey Mouse is so old, it's not even intellectual property anymore. It's over 100-years-old, so I think it's actually in the public domain now. I have to say Disney, although it's a lot closer than I would have thought a few years ago.

Jason Hall: Yeah, if you had have asked me a few years ago, I absolutely would have said Disney, but I'm going to give the advantage to Netflix here. Let me contextualize that. I think the total value of Disney's IP is probably higher, but Netflix's ability to monetize it more effectively all over the world, I think, is even better than Disney's. I don't think any of these businesses in their studios have done a better job of making content that's relevant in more markets around the world than Netflix does. Let's be honest, I was able to watch Happy Gilmore with my eight year old son this weekend and I watched that on Netflix, that's bridging generations right there.

Anand Chokkavelu: Three things. One, Chokkavelu household is very excited for Happy Gilmore, too. Even my wife is in on it. Two, the Steamboat Willie era, Mickey Mouse is free to the world. The other ones aren't. I'm glad I'm not the only one with way too many streaming services, Matt. Let's talk about Last Place. Who are you cutting first, Matt?

Matt Frankel: Well, all those streaming services are still less than I was paying for direct TV a few years ago, so I think I'm doing all right. For me, the last place, it was between Comcast and Warner Brothers Discovery, both of which have amazing intellectual property, just to show you what a tight race this is. Comcast has universal. I was just in Orlando, and the universal theme parks are massive down there. But I have to put Comcast in last place. Just because Warner Brothers, I think the HBO Max acquisition was such a big advantage for them. They have some of the most valuable television assets of all time. More people watch the sopranos now than they did when it was originally on TV. It's a very valuable valuable asset, Game of Thrones. All these HBO shows that are among the highest rated shows of all time are part of their library. In addition to their film studio and all the other assets that we can't name because it's not that long of a show. I'd have to give Comcast last place, although, like I said, there's a good argument to be made for most of these to be in the top one or two.

Jason Hall: Yeah, I think that's fair. I agree with Matt that Comcast is the Number 4 here. But I don't think that's a flaw. It's just the nature of its business. About two thirds of its business comes from its cable subscriptions and high speed Internet. It's built differently than these other companies. I think it's fine that it's a little bit smaller.

Anand Chokkavelu: I will say, just to defend Comcast a little. I was thinking about my parents live in Florida, and it's high time we bring my two boys to Disney World or something like that. Honestly, the Universal theme park, the new one with Nintendo, Mario and the Harry Potter realm, it's close. We might we might prefer that one, but just to give a little love to Comcast and Universal. Jason Hall and Matt Frankel, we'll see you a little bit later in the show, but up next, we'll talk to the founder of one of the top five networks in the world, so stick around. This is Motley Fool Money. [MUSIC].

Welcome back to Motley Fool Money. I'm Anand Chokkavelu. Dave Schaeffer is the founder and CEO of Internet Service Provider Cogent Communications. Believe it or not, Cogent's the seventh successful company Dave Schaeffer has founded. Shaffer joined Fool analysts Asit Sharma and Sanmeet Deo to discuss how it deals with customers like Netflix and Meta platforms work and what keeps him up at night.

Asit Sharma: Well, hello, fools. I am Asit Sharma and I'm joined by fellow analyst Sanmeet Deo today, and our guest is Dave Schaeffer. Dave is CEO of Cogent Communications. He's also the founder of this company founded in 1999. Dave has grown Cogent Communications into a global tier one Internet service provider. It's ranked as one of the top five networks in the world. Dave is also a serial entrepreneur. He's founded six successful businesses prior to Cogent, and foolishly, he's also one of the longest serving founder CEOs in the public markets. We're delighted to have him with us today. Dave Schaeffer, welcome.

Dave Schaeffer: Hey, well, thanks for that great introduction.

Asit Sharma: To get started, let's jump in. Dave, for our members who might be unfamiliar with the ISP or Internet service provider industry, can you just explain what Cogent does and how it makes money?

Dave Schaeffer: Yeah, sure. Cogent provides Internet access to customers and to other service providers. I think virtually everyone uses the Internet, but rarely understands how it operates. Cogent has a network of approximately 99,000 route miles of intercity fiber that circumnavigates the globe and serves six continents. We then have an additional 34,000 route miles of fiber in 292 markets in 57 countries around the world. That network is solely built for the purpose of delivering Internet connectivity. When a customer buys Internet access, what they are really buying are interfaced routed bit miles connected to other networks. If you tried to sell a customer that they would have no idea what you're talking about. The average bit on the public Internet travels about 2,800 miles. It goes through eight and a half unique routers and 2.4 networks between origin and destination. Coaching carries approximately 25% of the world's Internet traffic on its network and has more other networks connected directly to it than any other network.

Asit Sharma: Yours is a primary network. Oftentimes, we hear of middlemen carriers in between ourselves sending that bit. Let's say I'm chatting with Sanmeet over Slack, sending him some bits as we have been exchanging through the day and him receiving that. But you are, I think we can think of Cogent as being the primary fiber that is the backbone of this information communication network, is that correct?

Dave Schaeffer: That is correct. We operate two very different customer segments, roughly 95% of our traffic, but only 37% of our revenue comes from selling to other service providers. We provide Internet connectivity to 8,200 access networks around the world and about 7,000 content generating businesses. Whether it be Bell Canada, British Telecom, China Telecom, Comcast or Cox. They could be customers of Cogent on the access side, where they aggregate literally billions of end users. Then on the other side, we sell connectivity to large content generating companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, and Meta, where they use us as their Internet provider. The second portion of Cogent's business is selling directly to end users. That represents about 63% of our revenues, but only approximately 5% of our total traffic. Cogent is an ISP, primarily in North America, where we connect to a billion square feet of office space, where we sell directly to end users. Then globally, we sell to multinational companies, oftentimes using last mile connections from third parties.

Asit Sharma: I always like to understand how exactly the companies I'm looking at make money. For example, for Netflix or Meta, or you pick a content provider, whoever it might be, when they work with you, explain that to me how they buy? Do they buy bandwidth in a package? Do they have a contract? How does that work? When they look to you to say, hey, we want to buy some bandwidth?

Dave Schaeffer: Yeah, so typically, we will provide them connections in multiple markets around the world. They will then have a minimum commitment level, and then above that, they pay on a metered basis. The way in which we bill is megabits per second at peak load over the course of the month. We bill at the 95th percentile, which means if you have a very spiky event that lasts less than 18 hours in a month, you don't pay for that incremental bandwidth but everything below that peak utilization, you pay a bill on a per megabit basis.

Dave Schaeffer: That is the way in which any service provider, whether it be an access network like Telkom South Africa, or a cable company like Rogers in Canada would buy from us. But for our corporate customers, the billing model is very different. For corporate customers, they typically buy in end user locations, not in data centers, and they are paying us a flat monthly fee for a fixed connection that is unmetered. I think of it as an all you can eat model.

Sanmeet Deo: There is a monthly recurring revenue that you get. It's just that with your network or your content customers, it could vary based on their usage. They could dial it up, dial it down, based on, like, this week, actually, they're dropping Squid Game, so they can anticipate they're going to need a lot of bandwidth versus maybe next month, their content late is a little lower, so they won't use up as much versus the corporate customers are paying more of a recurring, not based on volume. Is that accurate?

Dave Schaeffer: Is correct, Sanmeet. Virtually all of our revenue is predictable, even for those variable usage customers, there is oftentimes a very consistent pattern to their usage, and their bills do not vary by more than a couple percent month over month.

Sanmeet Deo: Dave, let's go on to looking at a review of recent performance. 2024 was a great year for Cogent. It crossed $1 billion in annual revenue. Can you just walk us through the highlights of your key business segments, wholesale, enterprise, net-centric? What drove the performance? Also did anything about the year surprise you as you went through it?

Dave Schaeffer: Two things. First of all our Internet based business represents 88% of our revenues across all three segments. We do derive about 12% of revenues from selling some adjacent services. Those being co location in our data center footprint. Optical transport or wavelength services and the leasing out of IPV4 addresses. We did generate about $1 billion in revenue in 2024 and 2024 was a year of significant transition for Cogent. Cogent had organically grown between 2005 and 2020 as a public company with no M&A at a compounded growth rate of 10.2% per year average over that period. We also were able to experience significant margin expansion during that period, where our EBITDA margins expanded at roughly 220 basis points per year over that same 15 year measurement period. When COVID hit, our corporate segment slowed materially because people were not going to offices, and as a result, Cogent's total growth rate had decreased to about 5% and our rate of margin expansion slowed to about 100 basis points. In May of '23, we acquired the former Sprint Long Distance Network, a Sprint Global Markets Group business from T-Mobile. That business was actually in decline and burning cash. In 2024, we significantly reduced that cash burn, and we were able to begin to repurpose some of the flow Sprint assets. In order to facilitate this transaction, T-Mobile paid us in cash over a 54 month period beginning in May of '23, $700 million. In 2024, a significant milestone for Cogent was our ability to take out much of that burn from that business and to actually accelerate the decline in that acquired business, as many of the products that were being sold or gross margin negative services.

Anand Chokkavelu: As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about, and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against. Don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. All personal finance content follows Motley Fool editorial standards is not approved by advertisers. Advertisements are sponsored content and provided for informational purposes only. See our full advertising disclosure. Please check out our show notes. Up next, we've got stocks on our radar. Stay right here. You're listening to Motley Fool Money.

I'm Anand Chokkavelu, joined again by Jason Hall and Matt Frankel. This week's been Prime Day week invented out of thin air in 2015 to boost sales. It's almost literally become Christmas in July for Amazon, and to a lesser extent, all the imitating retailers. Got me wondering. Is this the greatest feat of something from nothing marketing we've seen? If not, what's competing with it, Jason?

Jason Hall: I think it's not even something from nothing. I think they stole this idea. Christmas in July has been around literally since the 1900. I think they're getting maybe a little bit too much credit for just being a really big retailer, smart enough to say, hey, we're doing a sale when there was nothing else going on, and people were like, oh, it's a big sale. Well, people kept coming, so it just gets bigger every single year.

Matt Frankel: Before e-commerce, Jason's right, remember the Sunday paper that had all the flyers from all the stores. They'd have their semi annual sales. The President's Day weekend sales were the ones I remember that were the biggest deals ever that really were just meant to invigorate sales in a historically slow time of year. But really, this concept has been applied over and over. Think of how many tourist destinations create random festivals in the worst months to go, like, weather wise. I used to live in Key West, Florida, and the biggest party of the year is called Fantasy Fest. It was created to invigorate tourism during hurricane season. It's a concept that's worked over and over, and this is a big one.

Anand Chokkavelu: Dan.

Dan Boyd: I just wanted to jump in here and mention Father's Day and Mother's Day. Surprised that you guys didn't mention those. We're all fathers here on the podcast, so I know that we enjoy Father's Day, but, like, come on. They're nothing. They were just created to sell stuff.

Anand Chokkavelu: You're not going to mention Valentine's Day, Mr. Grinch.

Dan Boyd: Valentine's Day has somewhat historical significance with all the St. Valentine's stuff. I didn't want to go too far into it in my grumpiness Anand, but I guess we can throw that one on the fire.

Anand Chokkavelu: Speaking of Singles Day in China. The Alibaba took that cemented in the '90s. I think less commercy, but then it became more commercy. Two other things, Sears' catalog. Let's not forget. A lot of times Sears really is the Amazon before Amazon we forget about it because we see it at its late phases. It wasn't the first catalog, Tiffany, Montgomery Ward, they beat it to the punch. But when it was going, it was called the Consumer Bible. Then on a smaller scale, I'll give one more. Just shout out to Spotify rapped. They do a wonderful job inventing a thing to get us more engaged. Let's get to the stocks on our radar. Our man behind the glass, who we just recently, Dan Boyd, is going to hit you with a question. We're more likely, historically, an amusing comment. Jason, you're up first. What are you looking at this week?

Jason Hall: How about Church and Dwight? Ticker C-H-D. I don't know if we give some of these legacy consumer brands companies enough talk. What's Church and Dwight? You've probably heard of Arm & Hammer baking soda. But they also own a lot of other retail brands. You might be familiar with Orajel, if you've ever had a sore tooth or you have a baby that kind of thing comes up. They own Trojan, which is another brand that people might be familiar with. But here's my personal. Right now, I have a cold. I'm living and functioning off of Zicam. That's a Church and Dwight product that's really getting me through. Over the long term, it's been a great investment. Over the past 10 years, the stocks returned about 10.5% in total returns. That's underperformed the market, but it's better than the market's long term average. I think there might be something there.

Anand Chokkavelu: Dan, a question about Church and Dwight?

Dan Boyd: Not really a question, Anand, but more of a comment. Jason, you forgot to mention OxiClean in the Church and Dwight product catalog here as a parent of a three-year-old and a nine month old laundry is a very important thing on our house, and I don't think we could survive without that OxiClean.

Jason Hall: I will raise your three-year-old and nine month old with an eight and a half year old who plays soccer. My house runs on that stuff. I'm with you there.

Anand Chokkavelu: Matt, what's on your radar?

Matt Frankel: Well, now what's on my radar is the OxiClean that I have in the closet right there. But as far as the stock, I'd have to say SoFi. Ticker symbol S-O-F-I. Fantastic momentum. They've done a great job of creating capital white revenue streams in recent years. The growth is actually accelerating. They recently announced they're bringing crypto back to their platform now that the banks are allowed to do so. That's going to be a big driver. Not only crypto, they're going a step further. They're going to start bringing blockchain facilitated money transfers across border for free. They have lots of big plans. They recently started doing private equity investing for everybody. Guys like you and me can invest in companies like SpaceX and OpenAI that are pre IPO through SoFi's platform through venture funds. There's a lot going on in this business, and it's still a relatively small bank, and they aim to be a Top 10 bank within the next decade.

Anand Chokkavelu: Dan, question about SoFi.

Dan Boyd: Well, absolute F to name. SoFi, just terrible. I feel like smart people like them could have come up with something better, but private equity investing is very interesting, Matt, though a little scared to me without the reporting regulations that public companies have to do.

Matt Frankel: I do think it was a natural thing, though, now that all these companies are waiting longer than ever to go public. SpaceX is a massive business. OpenAI has a, $100 billion plus valuation. There's a lot to like there and a lot of potential.

Anand Chokkavelu: Dan, which company you're putting on your watch list, OxiClean or private equity stuff.

Dan Boyd: I'm going to go with Church and Dwight for some of that beautiful OxiClean.

Anand Chokkavelu: That's all for this week. See you next time.

John Mackey, former CEO of Whole Foods Market, an Amazon subsidiary, is a member of The Motley Fool's board of directors. Suzanne Frey, an executive at Alphabet, is a member of The Motley Fool's board of directors. Randi Zuckerberg, a former director of market development and spokeswoman for Facebook and sister to Meta Platforms CEO Mark Zuckerberg, is a member of The Motley Fool's board of directors. Anand Chokkavelu, CFA has positions in Alphabet, Amazon, First Solar, Microsoft, Netflix, Salesforce, SoFi Technologies, Walt Disney, and Warner Bros. Discovery. Asit Sharma has positions in Amazon, Digital Realty Trust, Microsoft, Nvidia, Salesforce, Upstart, and Walt Disney. Dan Boyd has positions in Amazon and Walt Disney. Jason Hall has positions in Brookfield Asset Management, Brookfield Infrastructure, Brookfield Renewable, Enphase Energy, First Solar, Nvidia, SoFi Technologies, Upstart, and Walt Disney and has the following options: short January 2026 $27 calls on SoFi Technologies, short January 2027 $32.50 puts on Upstart, and short January 2027 $40 puts on Enphase Energy. Matt Frankel has positions in Amazon, Brookfield Asset Management, Digital Realty Trust, SoFi Technologies, Upstart, and Walt Disney and has the following options: short December 2025 $95 calls on Upstart. Sanmeet Deo has positions in Alphabet, Amazon, Netflix, and Tesla. The Motley Fool has positions in and recommends Alphabet, Amazon, Brookfield Asset Management, Constellation Energy, Digital Realty Trust, Equinix, First Solar, Meta Platforms, Microsoft, Netflix, Nvidia, Salesforce, Tesla, Upstart, Walt Disney, and Warner Bros. Discovery. The Motley Fool recommends Alibaba Group, Brookfield Renewable, Comcast, Enphase Energy, Ge Vernova, and T-Mobile US and recommends the following options: long January 2026 $395 calls on Microsoft and short January 2026 $405 calls on Microsoft. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.