• Gen X professionals patiently waited their turn for the coveted CEO role, but baby boomers leaders are skipping them in favor of millennials taking the throne. The proportion of Gen X chief executives in the Russell 3000 has steadily decreased—and it may have to do with the “forgotten generation” being hesitant with AI. Meanwhile, Red Lobster, Lime, and Kickstarter have all appointed millennials to the CEO job in recent years. 

Many employees put decades of blood, sweat, and tears into climbing the corporate career ladder—but the top rung is missing the “forgotten generation” of workers, and it may be knocked out from their AI hesitation.

About 41.5% of CEOs in the Russell 3000 are at least 60 years old, part of the baby boomer generation, up from 35.1% in 2017, according to research by the Conference Board and Esgauge. Meanwhile, the number of millennial chief executives, in their 30s and 40s, has increased from 13.8% to 15.1% over those eight years. 

But Gen Xers, entering the senior-level stages of their careers, aren’t seeing that same rise in representation. About 43.4% of people in their 50s are CEOs—a fall from 51.1% during that same period.  

While Gen X still represents the greatest proportion of CEOs, they face dwindling opportunities compared to their millennial counterparts. Instead of giving their jobs to the next generation below them, baby boomers are skipping over Gen X in favor of promoting younger talent into their spots. 

Much of this change can be linked back to AI’s rising prominence in the workplace, experts say. Nearly all companies are integrating the advanced tech into their business strategies, and millennials by and large have the digital skills to lead that change. 

The ‘forgotten’ and unappreciated generation skittish on AI

It’s no secret that AI is here to stay—and CEOs are adamant that the only workers who will thrive are those who embrace the technology. However, older generations are a lot more hesitant to use ChatGPT and other tools compared to digital-native youngsters.

Millennials are leading the way when it comes to embracing advanced technology. About 50% of millennials use generative AI at work, compared to just 34% of Gen X, and 19% of baby boomers, according to a 2024 report from recruitment agency Randstad. Plus, younger workers are more positive about the tech; 55% of millennials are optimistic about AI-driven solutions, as opposed to 37% of Gen X, and 36% of boomers. 

While the oldest generation is the least prepared and hopeful when it comes to using AI themselves, they’re looking for successors who are more willing. And millennials perfectly fit the bill: they’re old enough to have industry experience, grew up with the internet, and are more forward-thinking about AI use in business. Gen Z are too young, and Gen X are more skittish on the technology. 

But there may be another factor at hand: Gen X is simply being overlooked at work in general. Due to workplace ageism and the expectation they’ll retire soon, Gen X is being passed up on career opportunities. About 22% of employees aged 40 and up say their workplaces skip over older workers for challenging assignments, and 16% say they’ve witnessed a pattern of being passed over for promotions in favor of younger staffers.

The millennials being tapped as CEOs of billion-dollar companies

Billion-dollar companies are already on board with the next wave of millennial CEOs, promoting them to the position in lieu of Gen Xers who waited their turn. 

Last August, Red Lobster made history by appointing their youngest CEO in history: Damola Adamolekun. At just 35 years old, he took the reins of the struggling seafood chain, having previously been chief executive of P.F. Chang’s when he was 31, and an investment banking analyst at Goldman Sachs. The millennial CEO marked a fresh new start for Red Lobster’s leadership strategy—and his spirited can-do energy has made him an executive darling admired by fellow CEOs and customers alike. 

Project fundraising company Kickstarter also appointed a millennial to its chief executive position in 2022, when he was just 33 years old. Serial entrepreneur and millennial CEO Everette Taylor has since become a force to be reckoned with, making Forbes 30 Under 30 list for his efforts to build equity in the arts and marketing realms. 

There’s also electric scooter and bike company Lime, which appointed then-36-year-old Wayne Ting as its CEO in 2020. The millennial had been the chief of staff to Uber’s CEO, also serving as a senior policy advisor for The White House and a private equity associate for Bain Capital. 

This story was originally featured on Fortune.com

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• Google X’s former chief business officer Mo Gawdat says the notion AI will create jobs is “100% crap,” and even warns that “incompetent CEOs” are on the chopping block. The tech guru predicts that AGI will be better at everything than most humans—echoing the likes of Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis and OpenAI chief Sam Altman. Only the best workers in their fields will keep their jobs “for a while,” and even “evil” government leaders might be replaced by the robots. 

Tech titans keep insisting that AI will usher in a “golden era” of humanity, where all illness is cured, people live in abundance, and workers have “superhuman” powers. But a former Google executive has slammed the notion that the technology won’t be a job-killer and will actually create new work for humans. 

“My belief is it is 100% crap,” Mo Gawdat, the former chief business officer for Google X, recently said on The Diary of a CEO podcast. “The best at any job will remain. The best software developer, the one that really knows architecture, knows technology, and so on will stay—for a while.”

Gawdat has joined the cohort of leaders waving the red flag that AI will commence a jobs armageddon within the next 5 to 15 years. Companies including Duolingo, Workday, and Klarna have already laid off staffers in droves or stopped hiring humans altogether to get ready for an AI-centric workforce. 

But executives shouldn’t celebrate their efficiency gains too soon—their role is also on the chopping block, Gawdat, who worked in tech for 30 years and now writes books on AI development, cautioned. 

“CEOs are celebrating that they can now get rid of people and have productivity gains and cost reductions because AI can do that job. The one thing they don’t think of is AI will replace them too,” Gawdat continued. “AGI is going to be better at everything than humans, including being a CEO. You really have to imagine that there will be a time where most incompetent CEOs will be replaced.”

While the vision of human-less companies solely run by robots is incredibly dystopian, the ex-Google executive isn’t afraid of what lies ahead. The 58-year-old doesn’t see AI being the perpetrator of job loss—money-hungry CEOs are actually to blame for letting the technology take over in the pursuit of financial gain, he claimed.

“There’s absolutely nothing wrong with AI—there’s a lot wrong with the value set of humanity at the age of the rise of the machines,” Gawdat said. “And the biggest value set of humanity is capitalism today. And capitalism is all about what? Labor arbitrage.”

Fortune reached out to Gawdat for comment.

For humans to thrive, ‘evil’ world leaders need to be replaced by AI

AI is already outpacing humans when it comes to some abilities—it can code, resolve customer requests, handle administrative work, and even analyze market figures. There’s no telling where its future capabilities lie. 

Tech leaders like Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis and OpenAI chief Sam Altman are adamant it’ll outpace even the most powerful people by 2030. And that may be a good thing for humanity: For humans to thrive in this new era, immoral corporate executives and world leaders alike need to be replaced by AI, Gawdat advised. 

He said that since harmful leaders will use the tech to “magnify the evil that man can do,” technology will make for more moral world leaders—and that this dystopian scenario of AI-enabled politicians is “unavoidable”.

“The only way for us to get to a better place, is for the evil people at the top to be replaced with AI,” Gawdat continued on the podcast. “[World leaders] will have to replace themselves [with] AI. Otherwise, they lose their advantage.”

Gawdat isn’t the only one sounding alarm bells over AI’s impact on humanity’s future. Altman and Google chief Sundar Pichai have both expressed a need for AI regulation—whether that be “major governments” drawing a line in the sand, or creating a high-level governance body to oversee potential harm. 

“We are likely to eventually need something like an IAEA for superintelligence efforts,” Altman wrote in a 2023 blogpost, adding that AI projects should have to confront an “international authority that can inspect systems, require audits, test for compliance with safety standards, place restrictions on degrees of deployment and levels of security.”

This story was originally featured on Fortune.com

© Kate Green / Stringer / Getty Images

• Gen Z often gets flak for starting their days glued to their phones—but GoTo Foods CEO Jim Holthouser similarly begin his 12-hour workdays “meme-hunting” before lifting weights. The chief executive leading a billion-dollar company has 12-hour workdays jam-packed with meetings with his direct-reports, employees, and mentors. Yet to wind down each night, he reads 100 emails to hit “inbox-zero,” just like ex-Shark Tank billionaire Mark Cuban and Squarespace CEO Anthony Casalena.

Many CEOs may swear by morning cold plunges or green juice shots to jump-start their days. But GoTo Foods CEO Jim Holthouser begins his 12-hour workdays with black coffee and reading the news—but also, scouring the internet for jokes to send to his friends, much like Gen Z and millennials might.

“I do something a little ridiculous but very fun: I go meme-hunting. I’ve got friend groups from different chapters of my life, and we send memes to each other 365 days a year,” Holthouser recently revealed to Business Insider. “Some are political, some are just absurd. It’s not about the jokes so much as it’s a way to stay connected to people I care about.”

Holthouser leads a food empire spanning Carvel, Cinnabon, Moe’s Southwest Grill, Auntie Anne’s, and Jamba Juice, with more than 7,000 restaurants worldwide and system-wide sales of more than $4.2 billion since 2020. 

To get a handle on all his iconic brands, he starts work at 8:30 a.m.—a bit later than the typical Silicon Valley executives, including Apple CEO Tim Cook, setting 5 a.m. alarms. But like most leaders, his days are often long, extending into the late hours of the night. To get the energy he needs to lead GoTo Foods, he swears by his morning workouts set to the tune of classic oldies. 

“I’m pretty religious about my daily workouts. Three days a week are cardio, and three are weights,” Holthouser said. “I’m on the Peloton at least once a week. If I’m not listening to coach Leanne Hainsby to get me through an intense session, I’m listening to 70s music.”

From 9 a.m. to 5 p.m: Meetings, mentorship and beers

Once he gets to the office, Holthouser does a sweep of the floor of his Atlanta headquarters. He explains he tries to remember his employees’ names and hobbies to try and nurture a caring work environment. 

Then, the meetings come—he checks in with his 10 direct reports each week for an hour each. Holthouser is also keen on making time for those outside of his direct circle, even those who are vying to be mentored by the food mogul. 

“I also do regular skip-level meetings with brand heads who don’t report to me directly. We’ll grab a beer, lunch, have a casual chat in my office,” Holthouser said. “It’s not about metrics; it’s about getting to know each other.”

“A lot of people here have asked me to mentor them. If someone has the guts to reach out, I’ll almost always say yes. Most of the time, it’s just a monthly lunch. But it’s meaningful for both of us.”

Fortune reached out to GoTo Foods for comment.

Holthouser’s day doesn’t end at 5 p.m.—and he can’t sleep until his inbox is clear 

Holthouser’s five-to-nine after the “typical workday” ends doesn’t look like TV binge-watching or bar hopping with friends. He works late everyday in an effort to “mentor, check in, give recognition, and stay connected”—but also to maintain the right connections to help GoTo Foods succeed. 

“My day doesn’t end until 8 or 9 at night, often because I have a lot of entertaining and after-hours meetings and activities to do,” Holthouser continued. “We try to stay dialed into the local political scene to develop those kinds of contacts—you never know when you’re going to need them.”

When he finally gets a minute to himself, he catches up with his wife over a glass of wine, and pursues his childhood passion: playing the piano. The CEO said that he started practicing at the age of 6, and was later invited to study at Julliard when he was just 11. His talent helped him pay his way through undergraduate and graduate school, playing at piano bars and nice restaurants. Now, he sits down for 30 minutes each night to play and “decompress”—it’s a daily habit that helps him not think about work. But there’s one last thing Holthouser has to check off his agenda to be able to sleep.

Like ex-Shark Tank investor Mark Cuban and Squarespace CEO Anthony Casalena, Holthouser reads all his unread emails by his 11 p.m. bedtime. If he doesn’t hit inbox-zero, it’s harder for him to completely relax. The CEO said that answering messages from his more than 2,000 franchises is always his top priority, as “they’re the lifeblood of our company.” 

“I’m one of those inbox-zero people. If I don’t clear my email before bed, I won’t sleep well,” Holthouser said. “I probably get around 100 emails a day, but only 30% of them are truly important.”

This story was originally featured on Fortune.com

© Courtesy of GoTo Foods

Being in the C-suite is a high-pressure job with long hours, responsibilities to the board, and intense scrutiny. But what is it like to be a top executive when you’re off the clock?

Fortune’s series, The Good Life, shows how up-and-coming leaders spend their time and money outside of work.

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Today we meet Eric Chen, the CEO and cofounder of financial blockchain Injective Foundation.

Hype around cryptocurrency has been growing for years—and Wall Street is now finally embracing it. Chen’s company provides investors a secure platform to reinvent global markets; he says his Layer 1 blockchain is one of the largest crypto networks ever built, leading the industry in user activity, transactions, and monetary volume. Since its 2018 inception, Injective has processed more than 2 billion on-chain transactions, with over 1.5 million wallets on the system. It has raised $56 million from major investors such as Binance, BitGo, Pantera, Jump—and even ex-Shark Tank billionaire investor Mark Cuban.

“The mission is simple: to create a truly free and fair financial system through decentralization,” Chen tells Fortune. “It does so by giving every builder, financial institution, and user the tools they need to reinvent global markets in a fully transparent and permission-less manner.”

Over the past seven years, Injective has grown to a $1.34 billion company—and at 26 years old, Chen is just getting started. More impressively, he launched the company at just 19 while enrolled in New York University. Chen was studying finance and mining Ethereum in his dorm room, all while interning at Innovating Capital on a hedge-fund desk. The then-teenager was inspired to launch Injective after witnessing the inefficiencies of the traditional market—so he dropped out of NYU, and started building his billion-dollar business. 

Injective has since made leaps in progress; Deutsche Telekom, T-Mobile’s telecoms arm, joined as a validator, bringing Fortune 500-quality network infrastructure. Cboe Global Markets—the largest options exchange in America—also submitted a request to list the fund, signaling strong institutional interest and placing Injective among networks with potential U.S.-listed ETFs. 

Due to his business’ massive growth, Chen says he can’t remember a time when he was fully away from his work. The CEO’s fun luxury gadgets—including a $2,900 mattress cover, Oura ring, and racing simulator—help keep him sane, he says, in the thick of his busy schedule. He never buys groceries, opting to eat out in New York City or Doordash his food. Taking very few swanky vacations, he lives a globetrotting lifestyle through his business, with trips to Seoul, London, Toronto, Abhu Dhabi, and Singapore this year. 

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The finances

Fortune: What’s been the best investment you’ve ever made?

My Eight Sleep mattress cover, around $2,900. It enables me to be maximally efficient with sleep and minimize chances of productivity drop off due to poor sleep quality.

And the worst?

I wouldn’t say there’s been a single ‘worst’ investment so far. Every decision, whether it’s worked out or not, has taught me something valuable and shaped how I think going forward. I try to approach everything with a learning mindset, which helps turn even the less successful bets into long-term upside.

How do you commute to work?

I live in New York, so my commute is usually a quick walk from home to the office.

How much is in your wallet? Do you have any fun credit cards you’d recommend?

Fiat [government tender, like the U.S. dollar] is dying so I actually never carry any cash!

Do you invest in shares?

I mainly only buy and hold crypto via apps on Injective. I dollar-cost-average into my favorite assets and use various programmable AI-driven bots to automate most trades, since I’m normally very caught up with work to follow the markets closely these days. 

The best approach is to learn by doing, while keeping risk low at the start. There are many great resources online including tutorials, videos, and forums that can help you build a strong foundation. Most platforms also offer paper trading, which allows you to practice with simulated money and no real financial risk. Use that experience to gain confidence before investing actual funds. Make sure you feel prepared to handle the ups and downs of the market before jumping in.

What personal finance advice would you give your 20-year-old self?

Invest more in Bitcoin.

What’s the one subscription you can’t live without?

My Oura ring subscription. It’s great for tracking daily calories and sleep, which honestly is a godsend.

Where’s your go-to wristwatch from?

I love my Apple watch. Simple yet effective.

The necessities 

How do you get your daily coffee fix?

Back when I first started Injective in college, I was running almost entirely on Red Bull. We even had a Red Bull fridge in our first office to keep a steady supply. These days I’ve made the switch to Celsius or double-espresso to keep me going.

What about eating on the go?

Like with my workouts, I try to be pretty disciplined about stepping away from my desk for lunch when I can. Most days, I’ll eat in our communal office kitchen. It’s a good break and gives me a chance to catch up with the team. That said, there are definitely days when things are non-stop and I end up eating at my desk or on the go.

I used to order take-out a ton since I have no time to cook, but recently I’ve started to meal prep. So, usually I just eat that at my desk while catching up on news at the same time.

Where do you buy groceries?

This is going to sound horrible, but I am not sure I ever really buy groceries. I live off of meal prep and Doordash most days.

How often in a week do you dine out versus cook at home?

About 90% of the time, I end up eating out between work meetings, dinners, or just taking advantage of being in New York. There’s always something new to try, and so many great spots nearby.

Any go-to restaurants or takeaways near you?

One of my favorites right now is Barlume, a Mediterranean place near our office that I go to pretty regularly.

Where do you shop for your work wardrobe?

Comfort has always been my priority. My style has definitely changed since college—whose hasn’t? Back then I’d just throw on whatever I got from conferences or hackathons. These days, I still keep it comfortable, but now I’ll reach for something like Sporty & Rich.

What would be a typical work outfit for you?

I wouldn’t say I have a set everyday wardrobe. Some days it’s gym shorts, a polo, and flip-flops, especially if it’s a more casual day. Other times, if I have an important meeting, I’ll opt for a shirt and chinos. It really depends on what the day calls for.

Are you the proud owner of any futuristic gadgets?

I’m not sure if it counts as futuristic, but my guilty pleasure is definitely the racing simulator I have at home. It’s the biggest gadget I own, and it does an insanely good job of simulating the real thing.

The treats

How do you unwind from the top job?

If I have the time, I love playing tennis. It’s one of the few things that really helps me unplug and re-energize. It’s physically active but also mentally engaging, which makes it the perfect combination for me. Even just hitting for an hour clears my head and gives me a second wind.

What’s the best bonus treat you’ve bought yourself?

After hosting a big Injective event in Belgium, I booked a few hours on a real race track with my friends. The simulator practice paid off.

How do you treat yourself when you get a promotion?

I usually don’t buy myself anything physical as a reward to be quite honest. Getting to go to a concert with my friends or checking out interesting performances in the city is the closest thing to a bonus reward I would say.

Take us on holiday with you: What’s next on your vacation list?

My next vacation will actually be to Northern Macedonia to attend the wedding of one of our original Injective developers. It’s a special full-circle moment, and I’m excited to celebrate with someone who’s been part of the journey since the early days.

Usually my “vacations” are just work conferences around the world. This year alone, I will have been in Seoul, London, Toronto, Abhu Dhabi, and Singapore for talks I am giving.

How many days of annual leave do you take a year?

What’s a day off? Jokes aside, I actually can’t remember a time when I was 100% away from work. Even when I might be at a friend’s housewarming or visiting a new city, I am 24/7 terminally online.

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Fortune wants to hear from business leaders on what their “Good Life” looks like. Get in touch: [email protected]

This story was originally featured on Fortune.com

© Courtesy of Injective Foundation

• Anthropic billionaire CEO Dario Amodei says many of his employees are turning down Meta’s $100 million poaching offers, adding they “wouldn’t even talk to Mark Zuckerberg.” And the tech titan isn’t willing to fight fire with fire by raising his own star staffers’ salaries to convince them to stay at the $61.5 billion AI company, saying it’s “unfair” and could hurt company culture. Amodei and other Silicon Valley CEOs, including Sam Altman, have criticized Meta’s strategy as being a killer for company culture. 

Tech companies like Meta and Google have waged an all-out talent war in the fight to build the next revolutionary AI—but Anthropic’s stars aren’t being won over by the promise of $100 million pay packages. 

“Relative to other companies, a lot fewer people from Anthropic have been caught by these. And it’s not for lack of trying,” Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei recently revealed on the Big Technology Podcast. “I’ve talked to plenty of people who got these offers at Anthropic and who just turned them down. Who wouldn’t even talk to Mark Zuckerberg.”

Meta’s been on a tear to dominate AI—and if it can’t grow the talent internally, its CEO Zuckerberg has no qualms about buying it instead. In June, reports revealed that he’s been poaching staff at competitor companies (including OpenAI, Google, and Anthropic) with $100 million signing bonuses, in an effort to beef up his “superintelligence” AI lab. 

Some have taken up his envy-inducing offer, including at least seven staffers from OpenAI, but Amodei insisted that most of his employees haven’t taken the bait—and he’s not throwing money at staff to keep them.

Why Anthropic’s CEO won’t use cash to convince workers to stay

Employers may be tempted to fight fire with fire by raising their AI stars’ salaries or recruiting others in return—but Anthropic thinks it would hurt its company culture. 

“We are not willing to compromise our compensation principles, our principles of fairness, to respond individually to these offers,” Amodei said. “The way things work at Anthropic is there’s a series of levels. One candidate comes in, they get assigned a level, and we don’t negotiate that level, because we think it’s unfair. We want to have a systematic way.”

Amodei not only thinks that it’s unfair to raise salaries to have his workers stick around, but that it could actually backfire on his billion-dollar company’s mission. In actuality, staying true to his compensation practices amid the poaching chaos has been a win for Anthropic’s culture. 

“I think actually this was a unifying moment for the company where we didn’t give in. We refused to compromise our principles, because we had the confidence that people are Anthropic because they truly believe in the mission,” Amodei continued. 

“The only way you can really be hurt by this is if you allow it to destroy the culture of your company by panicking, by treating people unfairly, in an attempt to defend the company.”

Fortune has reached out to Anthropic and Meta for comment.

Amodei’s criticism of Zuckerberg’s $100 million poaching strategy

Zuckerberg’s aggressive poaching strategy has ruffled some feathers in the AI world. Being scooped up with a $100 million pay package is a dream for most, but the Anthropic CEO has called out the practice for being fundamentally unfair. 

“If Mark Zuckerberg throws a dart at a dart board and hits your name, that doesn’t mean that you should be paid 10 times more than the guy next to you who’s just as skilled, who’s just as talented,” Amodei said on the podcast. 

Plus, Amodei thinks the hiring strategy is flat-out counterproductive to what Meta wants to get done. The CEO is proud of his staffers for not giving in to the $100 million offer—and that same loyalty isn’t something that can be bought. And other AI talent seem to want in on Amodei’s culture; engineers at OpenAI were eight times more likely to leave the company for Anthropic. The company also has an 80% retention rate for employees hired over the last two years, compared to 78% at Google DeepMind, and 67% at OpenAI. Ironically, Meta is trailing behind at 64%.

Having employees who can do revolutionary work is one thing, but having a culture that makes them want to stay is another. By poaching others, Amodei doubts Meta is recruiting the best fits for its mission. 

“I think that what they are doing is trying to buy something that cannot be bought: and that is alignment with the mission. I think there are selection effects here,” he said. “Are they getting the people who are most enthusiastic, who are most mission aligned, who are most excited?”

Other tech leaders, including OpenAI’s Sam Altman, have echoed Amodei’s criticism. Altman said that while Meta has managed to poach some staffers, “so far none of our best people have decided to take them up on that.” Even though Zuckerberg has snatched some of his AI workers, Altman is doubtful that his competitor will be able to replicate the same success of OpenAI.

“I think that there’s a lot of people, and Meta will be a new one, that are saying ‘We’re just going to try to copy OpenAI,’” Altman said on the Uncapped podcast last month. “That basically never works. You’re always going to where your competitor was, and you don’t build up a culture of learning what it’s like to innovate.”

This story was originally featured on Fortune.com

© Bloomberg / Contributor / Getty Images

• AI is replacing human hiring managers in job interviews—and candidates are pushing back. Despite being unemployed, professionals told Fortune they’re refusing to take calls with bots, calling it an “added indignity” and a red flag for company culture. Still, stretched-thin HR teams say it’s the only way to handle thousands of applicants.

The next time you get buttoned-up and sit down for a long-awaited job interview, you might not find a human on the other end of the call. Instead, job-hunters are now joining Zoom meetings only to be greeted by AI interviewers. Candidates tell Fortune they’re either confused, intrigued, or straight-up dejected when the robotic, faceless bots join the calls. 

“Looking for a job right now is so demoralizing and soul-sucking, that to submit yourself to that added indignity is just a step too far,” Debra Borchardt, a seasoned writer and editor who has been on the job-hunt for three months, tells Fortune. “Within minutes, I was like, ‘I don’t like this. This is awful.’ It started out normal…Then it went into the actual process of the interview, and that’s when it got a little weird.”

AI interviewers are only the newest change to the hiring process that has been upended by the advanced technology. With HR teams dwindling and hiring managers tasked to review thousands of applicants for a single role, they’re optimizing their jobs by using AI to filter top applicants, schedule candidate interviews, and automate correspondence about next steps in the process. AI interviewers may be a god-send for middle-managers, but job-seekers see them as only another hurdle in the intense hunt for work. 

The experience for some job-hunters has been so poor that they’re swearing off interviews conducted by AI altogether. Candidates tell Fortune that AI interviewers make them feel unappreciated to the point where they’d rather skip out on potential job opportunities, reasoning the company’s culture can’t be great if human bosses won’t make the time to interview them. But HR experts argue the opposite; since AI interviewers can help hiring managers save time in first-round calls, the humans have more time to have more meaningful conversations with applicants down the line. 

Job-seekers and HR are starkly divided on how they feel about the tech, but one thing is fact—AI interviewers aren’t going anywhere. 

“The truth is, if you want a job, you’re gonna go through this thing,” Adam Jackson, CEO and founder of Braintrust, a company that distributes AI interviewers, tells Fortune. “If there were a large portion of the job-seeking community that were wholesale rejecting this, our clients wouldn’t find the tool useful… This thing would be chronically underperforming for our clients. And we’re just not seeing that—we’re seeing the opposite.”

Job-seekers are dodging AI interviewers 

Social media has been exploding with job-seekers detailing their AI interviewer experiences: describing bots hallucinating and repeating questions on end, calling the robotic conversations awkward, or saying it’s less nerve-wracking than talking to a human. Despite how much hiring managers love AI interviewers, job-seekers aren’t sold on the idea just yet. 

Allen Rausch, a 56-year-old technical writer who has worked at Amazon and Electronic Arts, has been on the job hunt for two months since getting laid off from his previous role at InvestCloud. In looking for new opportunities, he was “startled” to run into AI interviewers for the first time—let alone on three occasions for separate jobs. All of the meetings would last up to 25 minutes, and featured woman-like cartoons with female voices. It asked basic career questions, running through his resume and details about the job opening, but couldn’t answer any of his questions on the company or culture.

Rausch says he’s only open to doing more AI interviews if they don’t test his writing skills, and if human connection is guaranteed at some point later in the process.

“Given the percentage of responses that I’m getting to just basic applications, I think a lot of AI interviews are wasting my time,” he tells Fortune. “I would probably want some sort of a guarantee that, ‘Hey, we’re doing this just to gather initial information, and we are going to interview you with a human being [later].’”

While Rausch withstood multiple AI interviews, Borchardt couldn’t even sit through a single one. The 64-year-old editorial professional says things went downhill when the robotic interviewer simply ran through her resume, asking her to repeat all of her work experiences at each company listed. The call was impersonal, irritating, and to Borchardt, quite lazy. She ended the interview in less than 10 minutes. 

“After about the third question, I was like, ‘I’m done.’ I just clicked exit,” she says. “I’m not going to sit here for 30 minutes and talk to a machine… I don’t want to work for a company if the HR person can’t even spend the time to talk to me.”

Alex Cobb, a professional now working at U.K. energy company Murphy Group, also encountered an AI interviewer several months ago searching for a new role. While he’s sympathetic towards how many applications HR has to sift through, he finds AI interviewers to be “weird” and ultimately ineffective in fully assessing human applicants. The experience put a bad taste in his mouth, to the point where Cobb won’t pursue any AI-proctored interviews in the foreseeable future. 

“If I know from looking at company reviews or the hiring process that I will be using AI interviewing, I will just not waste my time, because I feel like it’s a cost-saving exercise more than anything,” Cobb tells Fortune. “It makes me feel like they don’t value my learning and development. It makes me question the culture of the company—are they going to cut jobs in the future because they’ve learned robots can already recruit people? What else will they outsource that to do?”

AI interviewers are a god-send for squeezed hiring managers 

While many job-seekers are backing away from taking AI interviews, hiring managers are accepting the technology with open arms. A large part of it comes from necessity. 

“They’re becoming more common in early-stage screening because they can streamline high-volume hiring,” Priya Rathod, workplace trends editor at Indeed, tells Fortune. “You’re seeing them all over. But for high-volume hiring like customer service or retail or entry-level tech roles, we’re just seeing this more and more… It’s doing that first-stage work that a lot of employers need in order to be more efficient and save time.”

It should be noted that not all AI interviewers are created equal—there’s a wide range of AI interviewers entering the market. Job-seekers who spoke with Fortune described monotonous, robotic-voiced bots with pictures of strange feminized avatars. But some AI interviewers, like the one created by Braintrust, distribute a faceless bot with a more natural sounding voice. Its CEO says applicants using the tech are overall happy with their experience—and its hiring manager clientele are enthusiastic, too. 

However, Jackson admits AI interviewers still have their limitations, despite how revolutionary they are for HR teams.

“It does 100 interviews, and it’s going to hand back the best 10 to the hiring manager, and then the human takes over,” he says. “AI is good at objective skill assessment—I would say even better than humans. But [when it comes to] cultural fit, I wouldn’t even try to have AI do that.”

This story was originally featured on Fortune.com

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